Shinki vs Badalassi - elasticity

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

I've got a jacket in production at FL with teacore Shinki. I was told the leather is not going to give much so I adjusted my measurements accordingly. But like others have said, I'm sure there's different types of leather from each tannery that will have different properties. In general though, at least from my experience, I'm not finding a lot of "permanent" stretch. This notion that a jacket will break in and loosen up, sure, you get a little bit, but some people are expecting like whole sizes.

With shoes, it's different. I've got a few pairs of CXL loafers and boots. There you can expect a good half size or more opening up, but I think the stress points are under more pressure with the tighter surface area, overall construction, and more frequent repetition of the crease lines.

On a jacket with typical wear, you can hope some of the squareness or corners will lay flatter, drape better, etc. And maybe that tightness under your arms or across your shoulder blades will ease up some. And the puffiness in the torso will sink in.

I'm sure if you rigged up your jacket to some sort of machine to exert constant pressure and repeat the creasing, you probably could get it to stretch out a lot. But then you'd be left with a lifeless piece. I've been intrigued by hanging my Aero FQHH CXL in the sun for like 20 minutes. You put on the jacket and it feels like a size bigger almost as the oils and waxes warm up. But then it springs back as it cools off. I think you want that spring. But that out of the gate tension lets call it, you absolutely need to know how loose to how tight for sizing purposes no doubt.

 

[dannyk]

I've got a jacket in production at FL with teacore Shinki. I was told the leather is not going to give much so I adjusted my measurements accordingly. But like others have said, I'm sure there's different types of leather from each tannery that will have different properties. In general though, at least from my experience, I'm not finding a lot of "permanent" stretch. This notion that a jacket will break in and loosen up, sure, you get a little bit, but some people are expecting like whole sizes.

With shoes, it's different. I've got a few pairs of CXL loafers and boots. There you can expect a good half size or more opening up, but I think the stress points are under more pressure with the tighter surface area, overall construction, and more frequent repetition of the crease lines.

On a jacket with typical wear, you can hope some of the squareness or corners will lay flatter, drape better, etc. And maybe that tightness under your arms or across your shoulder blades will ease up some. And the puffiness in the torso will sink in.

I'm sure if you rigged up your jacket to some sort of machine to exert constant pressure and repeat the creasing, you probably could get it to stretch out a lot. But then you'd be left with a lifeless piece. I've been intrigued by hanging my Aero FQHH CXL in the sun for like 20 minutes. You put on the jacket and it feels like a size bigger almost as the oils and waxes warm up. But then it springs back as it cools off. I think you want that spring. But that out of the gate tension lets call it, you absolutely need to know how loose to how tight for sizing purposes no doubt.

Right when people talk about break in and loosening up nothing really changes all that much...Its more as if hey its really tight around my shoulder and after a bunch of wear and movement it feels more natural and broken in. It doesnt really change size all that much if at all. Its just the stiffness in the leather or the tension in the stitching loosening up just a bit. Youre not going from you know 20 inch shoulders to 21. Youre getting no measurable difference just a different feel. Maybe, maybe theres a measurable difference but if so were talking millimeters.

 

[Marc mndt]

Right when people talk about break in and loosening up nothing really changes all that much...Its more as if hey its really tight around my shoulder and after a bunch of wear and movement it feels more natural and broken in. It doesnt really change size all that much if at all. Its just the stiffness in the leather or the tension in the stitching loosening up just a bit. Youre not going from you know 20 inch shoulders to 21. Youre getting no measurable difference just a different feel. Maybe, maybe theres a measurable difference but if so were talking millimeters.

I wasn't worried about sizing. I was worried about the open center vent and how it will develop over time. As you can see the center vent on my FL jacket has stretched a bit and is now permanently open, which is fine. But I don't want it to become a huge gap. I'm not sure how the elasticity of the leather contributes though.

 

[dannyk]

I wasn't worried about sizing. I was worried about the open center vent and how it will develop over time. As you can see the center vent on my FL jacket has stretched a bit and is now permanently open, which is fine. But I don't want it to become a huge gap. I'm not sure how the elasticity of the leather contributes though. View attachment 279015

Oh I didnt mean you...youve been around the block a few times and Im sure you know your stuff.. That was more just a general topic of discussion and dropping my 2 cents in. I get you.

 

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

It's a good question for a tailor. Part of me thinks, you want tighter so it stays put. Part of me thinks, you want looser so it doesn't stretch out.

I had a similar issue with my 141. At first I thought the biswing back was too tight and the elastic was maxing out and not allowing the flap to come down. I later learned, it was actually the opposite. It was too big and the elastic wasn't doing it's job and tugging the underneath to allow the flap to come down. Logically you think looser will be better because it will have more give. The problem is it's also more material to then lay flat, more material to create a gap, and if the leather is more rigid, there's more of a chance you'll get waves or separation that just never settle properly.

 

[jonesy86]

I wasn't worried about sizing. I was worried about the open center vent and how it will develop over time. As you can see the center vent on my FL jacket has stretched a bit and is now permanently open, which is fine. But I don't want it to become a huge gap. I'm not sure how the elasticity of the leather contributes though. View attachment 279015

I have a few center vent jackets made by less renown makers and the center vent is opening. I think that happened on the originals as well. Here is a photo of a Peters center vent.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Looks to me that the Peter's center vent was sewn in such a way to always be open.

 

[Marc mndt]

I have a few center vent jackets made by less renown makers and the center vent is opening. I think that happened on the originals as well. Here is a photo of a Peters center vent.
View attachment 279061

I wonder whether the elasticity of the hide makes any difference. At first I thought a more elastic hide would deform easier. But now that I think about it a little more, I had this calfskin jacket, spongiest softest leather in existence. If didn't deform at all.

(It features an open center vent)

 

[jonesy86]

I wonder whether the elasticity of the hide makes any difference. At first I thought a more elastic hide would deform easier. But now that I think about it a little more, I had this calfskin jacket, spongiest softest leather in existence. If didn't deform at all. View attachment 279062
(It features an open center vent)

What jacket is that? looks nice.

 

[Marc mndt]

What jacket is that? looks nice.

Its a ralph lauren. Reversible.

 

[jonesy86]

Ive been watching RRL jackets on The Bay. There is some nice stuff, but usually pretty pricey.

 

[Marc mndt]

Ive been watching RRL jackets on The Bay. There is some nice stuff, but usually pretty pricey.

True, they're heavily overpriced. Found this one secondhand for €100.

 

[Robson]

My Badalassi Russet Teamster does not stretch and keeps its from very well, it is 6 month old.

 

[Marc mndt]

My Badalassi Russet Teamster does not stretch and keeps its from very well, it is 6 month old. View attachment 279136 View attachment 279138

It's interesting that Aero uses their 'steerhide' label, while Badalassi uses cowhides.

 

[marker2037]

It's interesting that Aero uses their 'steerhide' label, while Badalassi uses cowhides.

They likely just mean, "It's made from a cow". Honestly, I don't think the sex matters.

 

[Marc mndt]

They likely just mean, "It's made from a cow". Honestly, I don't think the sex matters.

I thought cow and steer had different properties. But I just googled it and I can't find any answer other than "Cow leather is thicker" which doesn't mean anything because the hides are split anyway. So I think you're right

 

[handymike]

Steer is more manly, and expensive sounding. Maybe back in the 40s/50s it was also tougher. Several of my favorite jackets are from “steerhide”. I also prefer the way the CXL steer breaks in over the CXL HH.

 

[dannyk]

No one quote me on this I didn’t do a search. But I believe with Schott they have said the title has nothing to do with what sex or breed of cow the hides come from it’s simply a way for them to keep track of their selections. Cow and steer have different finishing top coats. One is naked and the other is not. I think there’s a thread somewhere about that on their forum. So more than likely other companies are doing the same thing or as suggested just use it as marketing to sound tougher.

 

[roadking04]

Cow and steer have different finishing top coats. One is naked and the other is not.

Schott calls their "naked" leather, cow; and their "finished" leather, steer. Not sure about other companies.

 

[AerGuitar]

I’ll chime in on the squeaky, stretchy Badalassi.. I have an Aero BR in a size 36 russet Badalassi. After a year of wearing this thing everywhere, and one good rain soak, my jacket has “grown” nearly an inch across the chest. My “proper” sizing in a board racer is 38. When new, this thing was a t shirt jacket and as noisy as could be. It slowly became more comfy and a bit less noisy after a few months. I got a nice soaking from the rain one day, and stuck a sweater on underneath to wear it until it dried. When dry, I hit it with a light coat of Obenauf’s just incase. Since then, I can easily wear a mid weight sweater, and the only squeak is in the inner elbow area. The rain only made the hide softer, a bit more grain popped, with a VERY slight darkening effect. New, the pit to pit was 20.25, now it’s a solid 21 and hasn’t shrunk back. It also loosened up in the shoulder and abdominal area. I love this jacket. I wouldn’t trust wearing my Vicenza jackets in the rain, but this one no problem.