Sherlock Holmes Hat

[lucas]

Hey everyone,

I like the brim treatment on this hat from the "Voice of Terror" (1942). I can't decide though if this is a Homburg with the front turned down or not. Any thoughts?

Lucas

 

[Edward]

Could be an example of the lesser-spotted snap-brim Homberg?

 

[David Conwill]

It doesn't look as though the sides roll up enough for it to be a homburg. Rather it looks like a fedora without much "up snap" in the rear. It is a sharp hat, I'll say, though I never pictured Holmes in a '40s-style hat.

I do try never to picture him in a deerstalker, either. I usually settle on the gray homburg that the BBC had him wear in the '80s or '90s whenever the wonderful Jeremy Irons episodes were made.

-Dave

 

[Doctor Strange]

Of course, those pictures are from the Universal-produced Basil Rathbone B-pictures, which were moved up from the usual Sherlock Holmes timeframe to take place in the present - World War II. So we're not talking about an antique, but a "current" forties hat. To me, it just looks like a standard bound-edge fedora that's been shaped a bit unusually.

 

[Stan]

Looks like.....

Hi,

Looks like someone reshaped the brim on a bog-standard snap brim fedora to give a slight resemblence to the traditional Sherlock Holmes deerstalker to me.....

Stan

 

[Two Gun Bob]

Interesting, but not really Sherlock Holmes' hat...

Here are a few legitimate Holmesian hats, as shown by Jeremy Brett, the greatest ever Sherlock Holmes, and his first Dr John Watson, David Burke (top) and second Dr John Watson, Edward Hardwicke (bottom):

 

[David Conwill]

Drat, you know, I meant to say Jeremy Brett but I always end up saying Irons instead. The best Holmes, IMO.

-Dave

 

[Woodfluter]

Ah, the initial topic diverges slightly...

I've been a Holmes fan for a long time, and Jeremy Brett's portrayal is by far the best I've seen. Heads and shoulders above all others. Exactly as I pictured him in appearance, character and behavior from the Conan Doyle stories, which is a remarkable accomplishment for both the actor and the director.

The clothing is a feast for the eyes. To me, very accurate to the illustrations in the Strand, and also other drawings and photos of the era. Holmes' most frequently-worn hat was probably the derby, by the way.

- Bill

 

[shortbow]

You bet. Brett's portrayal is unlikely to be bested. If I remember rightly, I read that he worked so hard at being Holmes that it ruined his health.

 

[Kaosharper1]

Rathbone Holmes in the 40s

In the 40s they reset Holmes to the 40s and made a lot of the films into WWII films. The first two Rathbone films (The Hound of the Baskervilles and The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes) were more authentic and set in Victorian times. For the rest of the movies Holmes typically wore Fedoras.

I haven't watched the movies for a while but I am a big fan of Rathbone. Until Britt he was the best.

It doesn't look as though the sides roll up enough for it to be a homburg. Rather it looks like a fedora without much "up snap" in the rear. It is a sharp hat, I'll say, though I never pictured Holmes in a '40s-style hat.

I do try never to picture him in a deerstalker, either. I usually settle on the gray homburg that the BBC had him wear in the '80s or '90s whenever the wonderful Jeremy Irons episodes were made.

-Dave

 

[Shaul-Ike Cohen]

Sorry to differ…

… but I think the Granada/ITV series is excellent, very close to the stories, rounded, great soundtrack (Patrick Gowers), non-buffoon Watson(s). Only Jeremy Brett was entirely miscast, so much that it sometimes annoyed me to watch it.

Considering how much he identified with this role, it's hard to say this - in a way easier and in a way more difficult now that he's dead -, but he always looked like an actor, more precisely a stage actor, not like Holmes. I'm afraid the main problem is that he wasn't near as intelligent as the character, and where there should have been brilliance visible, even quiet brilliance, there was only dull conceitedness and arrogance, nearing involuntary parody. Suchet's Poirot is much more credible both in the character's intelligence and idiosyncrasies. That Brett bore a certain resemblance to Paget's drawings helped a bit, but that changed over the time when he gained weight.

My personal favourite is clearly Rupert Everett, the odd one out, in spite of the fact that that film's plot wasn't very Holmesy. Conan Doyle's character is much more fin-de-siècle than is usually realised, I think.

 

[Two Gun Bob]

We shall have to agree to differ on this one, I'm afraid.

Everett's portrayal is far too much like an effete Victorian James Bond crossed with Oscar Wilde. Moreover his stories have been well-produced but utter rubbish from a canonical point of view.

Brett still wears the deerstalker for me. Yours cordially, TGB.

… but I think the Granada/ITV series is excellent, very close to the stories, rounded, great soundtrack (Patrick Gowers), non-buffoon Watson(s). Only Jeremy Brett was entirely miscast, so much that it sometimes annoyed me to watch it.

Considering how much he identified with this role, it's hard to say this - in a way easier and in a way more difficult now that he's dead -, but he always looked like an actor, more precisely a stage actor, not like Holmes. I'm afraid the main problem is that he wasn't near as intelligent as the character, and where there should have been brilliance visible, even quiet brilliance, there was only dull conceitedness and arrogance, nearing involuntary parody. Suchet's Poirot is much more credible both in the character's intelligence and idiosyncrasies. That Brett bore a certain resemblance to Paget's drawings helped a bit, but that changed over the time when he gained weight.

My personal favourite is clearly Rupert Everett, the odd one out, in spite of the fact that that film's plot wasn't very Holmesy. Conan Doyle's character is much more fin-de-siècle than is usually realised, I think.

 

[Shaul-Ike Cohen]

We shall have to agree to differ on this one, I'm afraid.

No objections, I'm aware my impression is subjective, and I certainly agree about the canonical thing.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I've studied the hat extensively. It appears in a number of the Rathbone movies. It is a standard snap brim fedora with a pencil curl to the sides of the brim. The rear of the brim, i think is quite flat. No curl. The crease is a lazy diamond - more of a rhombus - if i recall correctly. There's a great shot at one point in the movie where he grabs it off the coathook where you get a good view of the crown and brim.

I'm in the anti-Brett camp. The gestures were badly overacted, and he just, as noted by shaul-ike, came across as arrogant.

I have really enjoyed the recent portrayal on radio by Clive Merrison, and i fear greatly that the near-universal exultation over the Brett portrayal will prevent them making film versions with Merrison.

bk

 

[Two Gun Bob]

I see no reason why an exceptional actor could not be cast for a new series of Sherlock Holmes, if the series or indeed films were done well and accurately, but Brett would be a hard act to follow, as would Edward Hardwicke.

Sadly the BBC's sub-Holmesian efforts in recent years have been polished but badly flawed, poorly written and completely miscast, imho. And let us not mention the Canadian versions starring 'Max Headroom'...

Like Shakespeare, messing about with the original simply for the sake of supposedly doing something 'new' does not result in a better production, it simply ruins a classic.

On the matter of Rathbone, he looked and spoke well but his films were non-canonical travesties and his Dr Watson (Nigel Bruce) was a foolish caricature. The hat, however, was rather better, albeit more Dick Tracy than Sherlock Holmes

I have really enjoyed the recent portrayal on radio by Clive Merrison, and i fear greatly that the near-universal exultation over the Brett portrayal will prevent them making film versions with Merrison.

bk

 

[Edward]

I've studied the hat extensively. It appears in a number of the Rathbone movies. It is a standard snap brim fedora with a pencil curl to the sides of the brim. The rear of the brim, i think is quite flat. No curl. The crease is a lazy diamond - more of a rhombus - if i recall correctly. There's a great shot at one point in the movie where he grabs it off the coathook where you get a good view of the crown and brim.

Ah, yes - that's what threw me, the pencil curl on the brim side. (That, plus thinking of the late Victorian period the stories were originally set in, over this side of the pond the Homberg would have been around in a way the fedora wasn't til.... the 30s, really?).

Good looking hat, either way.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

There's no doubt at all that Holmes' outdoors hat would have been a top hat or bowler in most of the stories. For the ones where he goes out of the urban environment, a deerstalker would not be out of the question.

bk

 

[MAB1]

Basil Rathbone all the way.

And I actually have a Deerstalker.

Elementary, my dear Watson.

 

[Phog Allen]

Interesting, but not really Sherlock Holmes' hat...

Here are a few legitimate Holmesian hats, as shown by Jeremy Brett, the greatest ever Sherlock Holmes, and his first Dr John Watson, David Burke (top) and second Dr John Watson, Edward Hardwicke (bottom):

Two Gun Bob, this is where you and I will agree to..agree! I have the complete Conan Doyle canon in one binding. It is about three inches thick. I have not read a story yet that did not remind me of Jeremy Brett. The late, great Mr. Brett. He made some other good movies in his day. His turn as the fop Freddie in My Fair Lady was superb. He carried his wardrobe in that movie like it was second nature. His scene at Henry Higgins' house for the "On the Street Where You Live" number was classic Brett. To me, Jeremy Brett was Sherlock Holmes.

 

[Colby Jack]

I really enjoyed both Brett and Basil as Holmes...both brought great character to the portrayal ...I also really enjoyed Christopher Plummer as Holmes in "Murder by Decree"...I believe James Mason was his Watson.