Seeking Help on Choosing a Civil Version A-2

[Bruce53]

I am thinking about purchasing a reasonably priced Goatskin A-2 with warming pockets. I have narrowed the search down to US Authentic, Gibson & Barnes and Cockpit. The advantage Cockpit has is I live close enough that I could go to their store in New York and actually try them on in person. US Authentic said I couldn't visit their factory in upstate New York due to insurance reasons. I am sure I can get a good fit over the internet anyway but I have never owned a leather jacket before so I am pretty green when it comes to choosing the best company. One thing I don't want is a giant wait once I order and the price range of these companies is about what I am willing to pay.
Authenticity is great but mostly I just want a "knock your sox off" jacket.

Any comments on quality construction between these three companies and their level of service? Which would you choose?

Thanks for any input you can provide.

 

[handymike]

You might also consider Aerial Star- they will make to your size and are also in NY...

 

[Fanch]

Always good to actually try on something first and would definitely make the trip to NYC to look at Cockpit. The Cockpit jacket that particularly intrigues me is their Type 440 USN 1930’s Open Cockpit Navy Figher Pilot’s Carrier Jacket. I own several G&B jackets and attest to their superior construction, although I prefer their Expedition (Indy) and G-1 over their A-2's.

 

[armscye]

As many have noted, G&B jackets tend to run a tad large-- less like a military trim fit. That said, I own one and they are very well made jackets, every inch the equal of most limited-edition jackets in all areas except authenticity of historic details.

On another note, I find the phrase "for insurance reasons" is the rough equivalent of that other modern general purpose avoidance-phrase/excuse "for the children". I strongly suspect that no insurance provision restricts escorted guests from visiting the factory-- they just don't want to be bothered. Since they are located about 5 miles from where I'm sitting, I may take a ride today and see...

 

[Seb Lucas]

I've had several G&B's and in my view they do not fit large. I am trim size 42 and the 42 jackets from G&B fit reasonably trim for a mass produced item. I do need to order a tall size to get arms and body length correct. At 6ft2 the regular length is too short.

They make a great quality jacket (especially their goat) but I have never owned an A2 since I don't like that look myself. I especially don't like their obvious placement of the hand warmer pocket on the civilian versions. I do have a Raider which is a civilian flying jacket, with no epaulettes or cargo pockets. Which for me improves the look.

 

[Doctor Strange]

I've had a G&B Civil A-2 in black goatskin since 2001. It's definitely my most-worn jacket, and has held up great. I've never been crazy about its Dacron lining or "texturized nylon" knits (the cotton and wool on classic A-2s are so much more comfortable)... but for all I know, they are using completely different materials these days. Even after heavy wear, the goatskin looks nearly unchanged: just some gray undercoat showing through on the edge of the windflap and epaulets. Sizing is a more personal thing: I've got a big gut, and in order to accommodate it, the sleeves are always too long on anything I buy, so I've had to live with it... (This is why I ultimately saved up and got myself a made-to-size Good Wear!)

Anyway, G&B's Civil A-2 is a very solidly made jacket, and if you can find a size that fits, you'll likely be very happy with it.

(For the record, I had a US Authentic for several years too - until I gained some weight and it became too tight at the waist. It was also a great jacket, but with an utterly different character: it had a rough-hewn, handmade feel very unlike G&B's factory prefection. Very nice, but something of a different animal... and not simply because it was horsehide rather than goatskin!)

 

[Asienizen]

You might be able to get an opportunity to visit USAuthentic's "factory". There are a few people on this forum who have done so. It may depend on who you know, but I wager it is possible.

 

[Worf]

You might be able to get an opportunity to visit USAuthentic's "factory". There are a few people on this forum who have done so. It may depend on who you know, but I wager it is possible.

Welp I asked TWICE and was turned down both times. "Insurance" was offered as the reason which I find strange. Didn't seem to bother Vanson any when I went there... they practically gave me the keys to the joint. Well... different strokes for different folks as Sly said.

Worf

 

[Doctor Strange]

Well, I visited the "factory" way back in 2002. It's just an old carriage house adjacent to Shaul's home, which is in a quite ritzy residential neighborhood. So whether it's really due to insurance issues or not, they're clearly not set up for dealing with the public, and it's not surprising that they prefer not to allow it.

 

[Sloan1874]

I find it kind of odd that companies in this niche don't like visitors: a. it's unlikely they're going to be overwhelmed with people dropping by; b. those who do get a chance to see the craftsmanship that goes into a jacket, a fun chance to 'see behind the curtain', and usually become first rate ambassadors for the maker.[huh]

 

[wdw]

Very true, Sloan. I think every site visit to any maker posted on this board has been very positive and can only have been a great advert for the manufacturer.

 

[Edward]

You might also consider Aerial Star- they will make to your size and are also in NY...

I would second considering them as an option. I would stress I have yet to have a chance to see their product in person, but I have been impressed by what I have seen of their work in photos and also with the way in which they have conducted themselves in online, direct communication with the market. If I was considering buying a new jacket in the general A2 vein (but for civilian wear, not trying for the accurate military look), their model with the A2 patch pockets replaced entirely by slash handwarmer pockets would be top of my list to at least consider.

 

[Edward]

I am thinking about purchasing a reasonably priced Goatskin A-2 with warming pockets. I have narrowed the search down to US Authentic, Gibson & Barnes and Cockpit. The advantage Cockpit has is I live close enough that I could go to their store in New York and actually try them on in person. US Authentic said I couldn't visit their factory in upstate New York due to insurance reasons. I am sure I can get a good fit over the internet anyway but I have never owned a leather jacket before so I am pretty green when it comes to choosing the best company. One thing I don't want is a giant wait once I order and the price range of these companies is about what I am willing to pay.
Authenticity is great but mostly I just want a "knock your sox off" jacket.

Any comments on quality construction between these three companies and their level of service? Which would you choose?

Thanks for any input you can provide.

Another thought... Why is it you want the handwarmers? Will you actually use them? Do you want the traditional A2 pockets but with the handwarmers behind them? Just musing, as I always find if I am wearing an A2 and want to pocket my hands, the length of the jacket makes trouser pockets more convenient. I've never felt any absence of handwarmers in the jacket for practical purposes. Worth considering solely from the POV that with a little patience you might be able to find something "higher end" on the used market for the same price, but the likes of Aero, ELC, etc don't do handwarmers.

 

[blazerbud]

Bruce,

If you don't mind us asking, how are you built?
If you want a knock your sox off jacket, then it better fit right, and that is going to be more important than how the jacket looks on the coat rack, or what brand or how high end it is. The standard sizing for a given brand may be more suited to people of certain builds. That is why trying on a given brand is important, then people with experience can direct you to how much different a brand that you cannot try on will compare. Therefore, you may not have to try on the correct jacket to buy, but you do need to try something on for comparison.

It is even more important if fit can enhance your features or body size. Don't be mistaken, there are some "fat boys" who get the right fit and look good in these type jackets, and thin people who get it wrong with the wrong size.

 

[thor]

You can usually find a decent one on the 'Bay at very reasonable prices. The older LL Bean A-2 jackets were rather nice and offered a one-piece back and side hand warmer pockets. Some had a built-in Thinsulate liner which was a nice bonus.

 

[Asienizen]

You might want to consider the A2 from Sportys Pilot Shop. It has handwarmer pockets, made of goatskin, and looks to be under $300.

 

[armscye]

LL Bean Observations, and another value Civilian A2

LL Bean indeed has some respectable not-quite-military A2 jackets in its past. At one time Golden Bear made them in the US from a very heavy goatskin, in both one-piece back and three-piece configurations. My only beef with the Beans is their enormously generous sizing: their old Mediums were about a 46 in military sizing. Their longs are clearly intended for Kobe Bryant-- I have a Bean XLT that has a 32 inch hem-to-collar measurement!

One other decent value-priced A2 you might find on ePrey is an older Banana Republic with the crested label. These were often Korean made, usually a hearty sheepskin with striations, and seem to age really well, patinating into a terrific cream-and-mahogany mottled hue (see photo from a recent eBay auction, not mine). The pockets are oversize, but otherwise these are respectable jackets, often for $50 or so.

 

[GoodTimesGone]

I have three LL Bean A-2s from the eighties and one from 1990 and they came in numbered sizes (40, 42). These early ones fit closer to labeled size, although the insulated ones fit slightly larger while the un-insulated ones fit slightly smaller. I have an insulated A-2 labeled 40 that fits like a 42 and an un-insulated one labeled 42 that fits like a 40. They came in seal goatskin or distressed leather (cowhide?). Eddie Bauer A-2s came in the seal goatskin un-insulated and are identical to the LL Bean so were probably made by the same manufacturer.
__________________________________________________________________________________________
Tom

 

[thor]

Armscye is right on about the older Banana Republic distressed A-2 jackets. They have a one-piece back, hand warmer side pockets and develop a cool patina. They even came in Tall/Long sizes (for those of us cursed/blessed with gorilla arms, LOL). I have one BR A-2 and also an older LL Bean A-2 (with Thinsulate lining) in my collection, both found on the 'Bay, that I am very happy with.

I have a Gibson&Barnes Civil A-2 as well but it looks too plain and generic. Nicely made, but no real character, IMHO.

 

[Doctor Strange]

You might want to consider the A2 from Sportys Pilot Shop. It has handwarmer pockets, made of goatskin, and looks to be under $300.

For a first A-2, if generic (S-M-L) sizing will work for you, there's no reason not to consider getting one of the NJ-made modern jackets that are sold under many different labels. Check out the US Wings $195 page, which includes several serviceable jackets for well under the typical $220-300 retail:

http://www.uswings.com/195.asp

Now I don't think for a minute that USW jackets are as nice as G&B's jackets... for starters, G&B's chest-size and Short/Tall sizing is better. But for half the price, the USW will get you 75% of the way there. They are certainly comparable to the more expensive LL Bean, Sportys, Legendary, Schott, or Cockpit models... if they aren't actually exactly the same apart from the label!

(Let's face it: you will probably end up getting more than one A-2 in your quest for your beloved favorite. It's happened to all of us! [For me, it was G&B @ $230 => US Authentic @ $350 => Good Wear @ 1050!] So you may want to consider spending less on your intitial jacket, so that you can save up to graduate to a premium model sooner.)