Searching for natural veg tan

[rgmatthes]

Hey everyone! I stumbled upon this space when starting my search for a new leather jacket. I've worn a bulkier brown department store jacket for the past 15 years, and it's held up OK with admittedly minimal care, but I wanted to see what else is out there.

After a few months of lurking, I think I'm looking for a natural veg tan leather jacket that can age into that beautiful caramel color. I'll be wearing this jacket in northern USA in the spring and fall, and I think that color works well in both seasons, especially the fall, when I tend to wear somewhat darker, bold, solid colors and dark jeans. Being my primary jacket, this will be an identity piece, showing up in lots of photos and something I wear when visiting young family. I hope to keep it for the next 15 years!

MY MEASUREMENTS (following this video):
- chest: 40"
- waist: 36.5"
- hips: 40.25"
- front: 22"
- sleeve: 25" (maybe 25.5" for comfort)
- wrist: 6.75"
- shoulders: 17.5"
- back length: 27"
- sleeve inseam: 21"
- neck: 15.5", maybe 16" (not sure if we measured this right)
- forearm: 10.25"
- bicep: 12.25"


Here's a few jackets I've found in my own search:

- Taylor Stitch Moto (Whiskey) [link]. This is what started my journey. However, I think I'm looking for horsehide vs. steerhide and without zippers on the sleeves. The spread collar is nice, but I could have also gone with a racer collar. I think I also prefer the older quilted lining.
- Standard & Strange X Simmons Bilt Vanishing Point [link]. This looked like a winner, but again I'm not a fan of the zippered sleeves and I recently read about SB's history with Aero (let's please avoid this topic!), and I'm not sure I want to support that company.
- Y'2 KAKISHIBU PERSIMMON TANNED HORSEHIDE SINGLE RIDERS JACKET (KR-42)[link]. This checks all my boxes! I really like the lining, especially given the seasons I plan to wear the jacket. I do worry a bit about how it will age, because I can't seem to find good pictures of this jacket after a few years of wear. Also it's the most expensive option by far, and tough to find used.
- Aero Cafe Racer Natural Horsehide [link]. Almost pulled the trigger on this one! But if I'm not a fan of the zippered sleeves, I thought I'd especially dislike having them on the front of the sleeves vs. the hidden style.


If anyone has experience with these jackets (fit? care? style tips?), please share! Also, if there are any other options in this category of jacket I've overlooked, please let me know.

THANK YOU!

 

[Tom71]

Both Aero and Simmons Bilt will built you any model out of their range with a natural horsehide.

If you´re after the look of the SB/VVanishing point collab, you can try with the Premier Highwayman or maybe a 1930´s Halfbelt from Aero. Both have button cuffs by default.

You will need to specify if you are after a natural "unfinished" horsehide that will darken and change a lot from the get go, or a "normal" hide that is just natural colored. This too will evolve but much more slowly and will never be as pale to begin with or as dark to end with. Aero offers both.

 

[TartuWolf]

Good job composing your 1st thread, well written, with links, etc.. Welcome to TFL!
TS moto is not natural veg tan.
All 3 other options are great.
Check out Mister Freedom as well, especially their Campus jacket.
Why are you against zip sleeves? I prefer them over any other type of cuff design.
There are quite a few threads related to this topic on TFL. Search "unfinished" or "natural" by thread name and you should find a lot of info.
Also really think whether you want natural/undyed (like Natural CXL) or actually "unfinished" which is much more extreme.
Personally I'd go with SB Tailgunner (Vanishing Point) as that is a likely purchase in my far future.

 

[Canuck Panda]

I think you will get more jacket for the money with Aero/SB.

But looking at your details I think the Y'2 in size 42 will fit you like custom, and it's off rack and you can try it on without going down the custom route which will be an adventure on its own. It's just expensive.

 

[AeroFan_07]

Agree about very nice detailed first post.

+1 on the zip sleeve cuffs. It's what I greatly prefer and that's with wearing a backpack nearly daily into and out of work.

 

[Aloysius]

Kakishibu is not natural leather and I have no idea why people keep saying it is.

Kakishibu is a specific red or brown dye.

Aero is your best bet for this, though personally I think as cool as the concept is, natural veg tan leather ends up just looking hideous. It'll spend a lot of time in unpleasant shades of dark pink, and end up looking like salted steak. Some people like that because it's "evolution" and "patina" but personally I always want to remind people that dyed leather will evolve too.

 

[TartuWolf]

I thought that Kakishibu is rather a specific tannin, not a dye? Seems to be both.

 

[TartuWolf]

The Y2 looks almost exactly like a Vanson enfield with slighly different chest pocket placement?

 

[Aloysius]

I thought that Kakishibu is rather a specific tannin, not a dye?

Kakishibu is a dye made from fermented persimmon, traditionally used in some Japanese garments for a red or brown colour. The specific tone can vary from blood-red to light tan.

 

[jchance]

… though personally I think as cool as the concept is, natural veg tan leather ends up just looking hideous. It'll spend a lot of time in unpleasant shades of dark pink, and end up looking like salted steak. Some people like that because it's "evolution" and "patina" but personally I always want to remind people that dyed leather will evolve too.

I also find the patinas on natural leather hideous—it looks very dirty and quite unattractive, to say the least—but I think the journey of aging natural leather is pretty cool, as the contrast is relatively drastic. Carefully aged natural leather (suntan every day) can be very cool and rewarding, only if you have the patience for such a project.

For example, the first pic of the MF campus jacket looks cool, whereas the second pic looks pretty ugly.

 

[Will Zach]

Kakishibu is a dye made from fermented persimmon, traditionally used in some Japanese garments for a red or brown colour. The specific tone can vary from blood-red to light tan.

The cool thing here is that Y2 claims the leather they use is both tanned and dyed by kakishibu. This thing will get dark in a hurry with some natural daylight. I tried kakishibu on natural leather belts and got some nice, deep reddish brown after a couple of days in direct sunshine. In Japan, they hang the kakishibu-dyed fabric outdoors. It starts pale yellow and ends different shades of red or brown. Super-cool.

 

[Aloysius]

The cool thing here is that Y2 claims the leather they use is both tanned and dyed by kakishibu. This thing will get dark in a hurry with some natural daylight. I tried kakishibu on natural leather belts and got some nice, deep reddish brown after a couple of days in direct sunshine. In Japan, they hang the kakishibu-dyed fabric outdoors. It starts pale yellow and ends different shades of red or brown. Super-cool.

Definitely. I love kakishibu. I believe it also (like most of these old fashioned dyes) has some kind of positive quality like being antimicrobial (I don't recall what it is, but for practical reasons such things were chosen as dyes in the past.) Aizome indigo keeps away mosquitoes for example, a literal life saver in those days before malaria treatment.

 

[rgmatthes]

Thanks for the warm welcome and all the great responses. You guys are incredibly knowledgeable!

> Welcome to TFL! TS moto is not natural veg tan.

This was hilarious to me. And of course thank you for the correction. I'm still learning!


Regarding zip sleeves, I think they look too moto for me? I don't ride and I'm not really a badass persona... button cuffs seem more my style. But I'm interested in why one might prefer zippers there instead? Are they a functional improvement, or just a style preference?

Also thank you for the other jacket suggestions. I'm looking for a used jacket vs. a custom order, since aside from my longer arms I think I can find something that fits relatively easily and save a few (or several) hundred bucks. Scouring the web for the perfect jacket is half the fun for me. I'm taking a longer look at the Tailgunner based on feedback from this thread.

Here's some pics I found of kakishibu aged 2 years on a jacket: https://y-2leather.com/en/aging/45 . I think the jacket is less likely to go full orange than I've seen with the Tailgunner.. it's really a perfect caramel. Other pics I've seen of used kakishibu jackets seem to lean this way too.

 

[TartuWolf]

Well the way I think about zipped sleeves is that it's a straight up improvement over other kinds for two reasons:
1 . Can zip them up to be warmer and keep the wind out of your sleeves (rarely useful, unless you ride).
2 . More forgiving fit. Nothing will help if the sleeves are too short. But zipped sleeves help a lot if they are a bit too long. They pair especially well with shoulder gussets or bi-swing back. I would highly recommend one of those as well. For example Tailgunner has shoulder gussets.
My Aero has a barely functional mid back pleat + button cuffs.
My Vanson has shoulder gussets + zip cuffs.
100% prefer the Vanson feel.
Aesthetically it's subjective, I like both looks.
I don't think zip sleeves are more or less badass. I rather see button cuffs as more classic/vintage and zip cuffs as more modern.

As everyone says here - make sure to do some good research and really understand the basic measurements that you need in terms of fit before forking out the cash for the actual final jacket. Many ways to do this.

I'm so fond of the Tailgunner / Vanishing point that I have gathered an album of 21 photos to gawk at. Maybe one day I'll buy one, but going for a natural / unfinished leather jacket is a huge commitment and rather extreme choice if you're not deep into the leather jacket hobby already.

Love the look of kakishibu as well. I remember being floored when I saw this one for the first time:
https://www.snakeoilprovisions.com/...hibu-persimmon-tanned-horsehide-type-1-jacket
Looks incredible, dream jacket for me for sure. That's what I'd go for from Y2.

 

[Will Zach]

I'd go for kakishibu as well over "natural" (un-dyed) veg tan. I like the story and tradition behind kakishibu, as well as its evo and properties potential. I'd bet dollars to donuts that it has anti-mold properties, in addition to those @Aloysius mentioned. I'd encourage @TartuWolf who makes beautiful wallets to try making one from natural leather and then experiment with multiple layers of kakishibu dye. Some stunning results are possible.

 

[rgmatthes]

I think you will get more jacket for the money with Aero/SB.

But looking at your details I think the Y'2 in size 42 will fit you like custom, and it's off rack and you can try it on without going down the custom route which will be an adventure on its own. It's just expensive.

Sorry to resurrect this thread, but can I ask why you think the 42 size would fit me better than the 40?

The 40 is measured with an 18" shoulder and a 25.5" sleeve. That seems closer to my measurements than the 42", which adds another .75" on the shoulder and .25" on the sleeve.

I'm only asking because I'm getting really close to buying here and I'm nervous about sizing!!

 

[Canuck Panda]

The Y2 sizing in my experiences are very slim. Especially their single riders. The tag size would equal to the actual chest circumference, and the ease comes from the action pleats on the back one inch on each side. I think both 40 and 42 will fit you, the later you can wear with hoodie and layered up, the 40 will be Tshirt type fit.

Check out all the fit videos on youtube, there are probably more, these are just the ones I've seen.

And go with a retailer that will allow you to exchange if size doesn't work out.

Good luck

 

[Aloysius]

Sorry to resurrect this thread, but can I ask why you think the 42 size would fit me better than the 40?

The 40 is measured with an 18" shoulder and a 25.5" sleeve. That seems closer to my measurements than the 42", which adds another .75" on the shoulder and .25" on the sleeve.

I'm only asking because I'm getting really close to buying here and I'm nervous about sizing!!

Adding .75" to the shoulder and .25" to the sleeve is not going to hurt anybody, lol. If it's dead on you'll be constricted.

A principle of tailoring is that shoulders can equal shoulder measurement (only really on shirts) or exceed them.

 

[cbez]

Throwing high large into the mix

 

[jchance]

I, too, am a fan of natural leather. I saw this Warehouse & Co. cossack in lambskin natural leather in size 40 that you may be interested in, 56cm p2p. When you need to do knit replacement, you can revert it back to the mono-color like a typical A-1.

https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/c1071618321 (20% off coupon at buyee).