Schott Per41 Cafe

[sberger]

Thinking really seriously about biting the bullet and getting one of these. I don't usually like made to look vintage, but this one looks pretty great.

Does anybody here own one?

I'm 5'7, 130lbs with a 35 chest so looking to get a small for a reasonably snug fit. This would be an add on to a Brooks Gold Label cafe that I presently own.

https://www.schottnyc.com/products/hand-vintaged-cowhide-caf-racer-jacket.htm?popup=0

 

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

Usually anything on the Per line is great. I think most of the Schott jackets are great to begin with for the record, but the Per line gives a little extra sauce.

With those measurements, I bet you're an XS if you want snug. Any of the odd numbers for chest size trigger the next size up on the sizing calculator on that site. See if there's reviews for reference, although those can be misleading. Best case is go on the site and during the day they have a chat operator, ask her for the spec sheet so you can compare the measurements to other jackets you have.

 

[sberger]

Usually anything on the Per line is great. I think most of the Schott jackets are great to begin with for the record, but the Per line gives a little extra sauce.

With those measurements, I bet you're an XS if you want snug. Any of the odd numbers for chest size trigger the next size up on the sizing calculator on that site. See if there's reviews for reference, although those can be misleading. Best case is go on the site and during the day they have a chat operator, ask her for the spec sheet so you can compare the measurements to other jackets you have.

Thanks for your reply.

Yes I was thinking I'd need XS also, but they don't offer it. I've left a message with their support team. I'm also going to contact the local store here in San Francisco to see if they have any in stock.

 

[Aloysius]

Personally I think the PER line gets almost everything right then kills it by over-distressing, but some people like pre-distressing, so there's something for everyone.

If this jacket is like Schott's other premium alpha-sized jackets, the S probably corresponds to a slim 36, so that should probably fit. Their size calculator is pretty accurate, so that's worth trying too.

 

[sberger]

As I indicated I'm not crazy about the distressing, but at least in the picture it doesn't look too bad.

My chest is a 35, probably even a 34 if measured for a very snug fit.

I don't know the size of my Brooks, but when measured pit to pit it's about 19-20"(with jacket closed). I have quite a bit of room in it. Not baggy necessarily, but certainly not what I could consider to be snug.

Here's a pic. Please excuse the dirty mirror:

Schott has a return option so I guess if I can't actually try it on in San Francisco I can always order and just send it back if necessary. A bit of a hassle, but not that big of deal.

 

[Aloysius]

That's what I'd do. You can get the measurements from Schott on request (they call it a spec sheet) if you want, but measurements can be misleading. You're in the US so you may as well try the actual thing out and return if the sizing doesn't work.

 

[Monitor]

Provided it's the same leather my PER70 was made of, these jackets shouldn't look nearly as worn out as the product photos made them out to be. My jacket didn't even look pre-distressed.

The cowhide is also the most substantial & natural of any leathers that I've see Schott use. I consider it superior to CXL.

 

[Aloysius]

Provided it's the same leather my PER70 was made of, these jackets shouldn't look nearly as worn out as the product photos made them out to be. My jacket didn't even look pre-distressed.

The cowhide is also the most substantial & natural of any leathers that I've see Schott use. I consider it superior to CXL.

The PER70 and its women's equivalent are much less distressed than the PER41, but it's definitely a great leather. (Someone listed one here once and strategically kept the front of the sleeves out of sight so people couldn't see the heavy distressing on them, but you could see it in the side view.)

 

[sberger]

Well went in a different direction, kind of, and picked up a slightly used Schott 641XX cafe made for the Japanese market. Got it in a size 34 which I'm hoping will fit better then what the small Per41 would've. I say hoping because I bought it online and it will be here next week. But it looks great, and after doing a bit of research these jackets seemed well made and pretty cool.

Oh, also got it for about half what I would've paid for the Per41, so there's that.

Pictures when it arrives.

 

[Aloysius]

Well went in a different direction, kind of, and picked up a slightly used Schott 641XX cafe made for the Japanese market. Got it in a size 34 which I'm hoping will fit better then what the small Per41 would've. I say hoping because I bought it online and it will be here next week. But it looks great, and after doing a bit of research these jackets seemed well made and pretty cool.

Oh, also got it for about half what I would've paid for the Per41, so there's that.

Pictures when it arrives.

Did you get measurements? If you used PayPal they will cover the cost of return shipping if you need to send it back.

Not trying to be a downer, but the Anglo-American chest-based size numbers in Japanese market products rarely correspond to what those sizes mean in England/America. Rather, they apply it such that '40' means L, '42' means XL etc, which is why I have tees from Japanese brands that are size 44 but measure 20 inches across the chest. There are some (very) rare exceptions, like the Buzz Rickson's reproductions of vintage American clothes (but not the Real McCoy's ones).

This is why there are Japanese market Schotts whose size 40 corresponds to an American 34 in measurements.

 

[sberger]

Did you get measurements? If you used PayPal they will cover the cost of return shipping if you need to send it back.

Not trying to be a downer, but the Anglo-American chest-based size numbers in Japanese market products rarely correspond to what those sizes mean in England/America. Rather, they apply it such that '40' means L, '42' means XL etc, which is why I have tees from Japanese brands that are size 44 but measure 20 inches across the chest. There are some (very) rare exceptions, like the Buzz Rickson's reproductions of vintage American clothes (but not the Real McCoy's ones).

This is why there are Japanese market Schotts whose size 40 corresponds to an American 34 in measurements.

Didn't think to get measurements. Assumed a 34 was a 34, so live and learn. I've contacted the seller to see if I can get a chest measurement before he sends it off. I did use Paypal. Given that Schott recommended XS of their USA jackets for me(one reason why I decided not to go for the Per41) I figured how small can this be? Guess I'll find out. But given the Brooks that I have has a 19" chest and that fits with room to spare on me, I'm going to guess this will probably be ok.

Worse case scenario I'll turn around and sell it myself if it's not good.

 

[Aloysius]

Even within US sizes, the alpha sizes don't mean the same thing. It's not absurd/dramatic like Schott Japan sizing, but different patterns will fit differently.

But fingers crossed that this is one of the JP market models that's just American sizing with a different label.

 

[Aloysius]

Okay, you might be fine. I looked up the model in question on a Japanese site, and it seems to be the Japanese model name for the CAF1, Schott's take on the Buco J-100 racing shirt.

 

[sberger]

Well the seller got right back to me(nice guy!). Here's what he wrote:

"

Here , the jacket is pretty much xs , see picture below for the size,

I wear pretty much small shirts and 32 jeans and this is bang on for my size, it has a gusset so its comfy , it would be boxy if i get the next size up, and the new shotts the xs is way too big and it like a medium .

This is very clean and looks new​

So it should fit well. I wear 28/29 jeans and small shirts. As I said my Brooks is 19" pit to pit.

 

[Aloysius]

Well the seller got right back to me(nice guy!). Here's what he wrote:

"

Here , the jacket is pretty much xs , see picture below for the size,​

​

I wear pretty much small shirts and 32 jeans and this is bang on for my size, it has a gusset so its comfy , it would be boxy if i get the next size up, and the new shotts the xs is way too big and it like a medium .​

​

This is very clean and looks new​

So it should fit well. I wear 28/29 jeans and small shirts. As I said my Brooks is 19" pit to pit.

Yes, like I said, I went and checked this model out and it doesn't seem to be one of the crazy ones. But never go by tag label when ordering from Japan. It usually goes very badly. You lucked out this time!

These are the measurements from Schott Japan's dealer, if that helps:

Length: 60.5cm (23.8")
Shoulders: 40cm (15.75")
Width: 48cm (18.9")
Sleeve Length: 61cm (24")

 

[sberger]

Yes, like I said, I went and checked this model out and it doesn't seem to be one of the crazy ones. But never go by tag label when ordering from Japan. It usually goes very badly. You lucked out this time!

These are the measurements from Schott Japan's dealer, if that helps:

Length: 60.5cm (23.8")
Shoulders: 40cm (15.75")
Width: 48cm (18.9")
Sleeve Length: 61cm (24")

The seller is actually here in California, but I hear you, and lesson learned. Thanks.

 

[Aloysius]

The seller is actually here in California, but I hear you, and lesson learned. Thanks.

Right, I should have phrased that "Ordering Japanese Domestic Market items".

 

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

I had 641xx that I think was a 42. It was pretty true to size, maybe slightly smaller. Great jacket. Details are awesome like the Talon zip and red casket style liner. It was a little too short for me at 6'0, but it was the perfect cafe racer cut other than that. Some are horsehide as well, but I think most are the steerhide you'd find on a 613, 641, 618, etc. Top coat heavy but will wear down nicely.

edit: btw, true to size for Schott is smaller LOL. Most of the time they are way big. So it's true that Japanese market styles are smaller, but probably more in line with "normal" sizing vs. the usual Schott oversized

 

[Aloysius]

I had 641xx that I think was a 42. It was pretty true to size, maybe slightly smaller. Great jacket. Details are awesome like the Talon zip and red casket style liner. It was a little too short for me at 6'0, but it was the perfect cafe racer cut other than that. Some are horsehide as well, but I think most are the steerhide you'd find on a 613, 641, 618, etc. Top coat heavy but will wear down nicely.

edit: btw, true to size for Schott is smaller LOL. Most of the time they are way big. So it's true that Japanese market styles are smaller, but probably more in line with "normal" sizing vs. the usual Schott oversized

641XX has the trim but sane fit of most 'racing shirt' jackets, but otherwise the Japanese size labeling used by Schott (and many others) has no tether to reality.

A Schott labeled 44 that measures 39 inches around the chest is not normal sizing lol.

 

[sberger]

Here it is. I like it. Fits well, a bit more snug(plus!) then my Brooks. But I don't think the previous owner wore it much after buying it in Tokyo so perhaps a bit of break in will loosen it up some. But I'm fine with it if it doesn't. Beautiful leather and lining.