SCHOTT NAKED COWHIDE OR STEERHIDE?

[PeterRocco]

Hi!
Times Have Changed. In the 60’s and 70’s I think SCHOTT was able to get Easily Thicker Better Leather at a Good Price. I think they have no control of what is made and do their best. I feel they are trying to keep the price down So can still be made in USA. And Something has to suffer don’t want to lower their workers Salary. So the Leather is not as Good. Great Enough for the Average Person.

 

[Carlos840]

When the leather comes out of the cow it is much thicker, somewhere between 3 and 5mm thick depending on areas.
The variations in thickness seen in jackets happen at the splitter, not in a field...
It's not that Schott can't get thick leather anymore, it's that they don't spec it anymore.

I just ordered some veg tan leather from a tannery for a couch, their standard thickness for cowhide is 4.5-5mm, but we had them re split it at 3-3.5mm because 4.5-5mm was going to be impossible to work with.
They just stick it in a big machine that cuts out the underside and splits it to the desired thickness.

https://www.radermecker.com/fr/cuirs/niagara?color=0

 

[PeterRocco]

Hell
So I used to Collect SCHOTT JACKETS. ST ONE TIME I HAD 22 SCHOTT JACKETS. 118,Police 602, 125, 141, B3, and So on. All bought from Original Owners. Had Great Luck on EBay and Etsy. All In Mint condition. Sold Most of them. Only have a few. I could not pass up a New 618 Someone listed on SCHOTT FOURM and then on EBay. So I bought it. Is Brown Leather.

So

 

[PeterRocco]

When the leather comes out of the cow it is much thicker, somewhere between 3 and 5mm thick depending on areas.
The variations in thickness seen in jackets happen at the splitter, not in a field...
It's not that Schott can't get thick leather anymore, it's that they don't spec it anymore.

I just ordered some veg tan leather from a tannery for a couch, their standard thickness for cowhide is 4.5mm, but we had them re split it at 3mm because 4.5 was going to be impossible to work with.
They just stick it in a big machine that cuts out the underside.

AND THATS SAD!
If you read their discription on both types of leather it’s Supposed to be 3 to 3.5. I bet most are just 3.

 

[PeterRocco]

THE LEATHER ON MY 602 Police Jackets was So Heavy and thick.
Now that’s Nice Leather. And it’s Steerhide.

 

[Carlos840]

AND THATS SAD!
If you read their discription on both types of leather it’s Supposed to be 3 to 3.5. I bet most are just 3.

3 to 3.5oz, which is 1.2 to 1.4mm thick, which i would say most Schott jakets fall within.
I have Schott jackets from the 70s, 90s and 2000s and i can't say there is much difference in thickness.

Edit: i actually have a 602 from the 70s, it's not that thick, super rigid and vinyl looking, but not really noticeably thicker than a modern Schott. At least mine isn't.

 

[PeterRocco]

Hi
I sold the two 602 I had.Wish I kept one of them. Had Jerri at SCHOTT make Real Fur Collars for them. Even for my 125.
Beautiful Real Fur.

 

[TREEMAN]

To an extent that's to be expected when we're dealing with an organic material like leather, where no two animals will be identical, even before you get to minor variances i the tanning batches.

Minor differences yes, that's to be expected. The differences I was referring to were not slight or minor......Plenty of Army /Navy stores and other clothing stores in New york sell Schott leather jackets... I've handled many of them and there are some very poor examples of them out there. I am for the record a Schott fan.

 

[PeterRocco]

Hi

I think if I were going to buy a New SCHOTT Jacket I would place a Custom Order. Hopefully I could Request a Heavy Tick Leather. When you Buy off EBay without seeing it in person you get what you can Get. I been Lucky So Far. I know Some People like The Broken-In Feel. I like My Jackets to be Thick and Firm. Don’t mind Breaking if in. I had bough a used 141 Once and looked Nice in the Pictures but when I got it the Leather was So Loose and Sloppy. Maybe the previous owner used too much conditioner. That’s another Subject.

 

[PeterRocco]

Hi
There is a SCHOTT STORE in New Hope Pennsylvania.I think called USALEATHERCO. I met the owner once when he had a store in New Jersey. He Sells only SCHOTT Jackets. He so Nice. His name is Peter. He could go to the Factory and Pick out a Very Nice Example of any SCHOTT Jacket. He told me when I talked to him.

 

[jglf]

Hi
There is a SCHOTT STORE in New Hope Pennsylvania.I think called USALEATHERCO. I met the owner once when he had a store in New Jersey. He Sells only SCHOTT Jackets. He so Nice. His name is Peter. He could go to the Factory and Pick out a Very Nice Example of any SCHOTT Jacket. He told me when I talked to him.

I bought a Schott from his store a few months back. I think the owner said he was from Tunisia. Nice guy. The jacket I bought was made in China though for the Japanese market. The styling and fit was really nice but the leather left a little to be desired.

 

[Monitor]

I posted this one before, but it was the beefiest, heaviest Schott Perfecto I've ever handled. And made out of the nicest leather I've seen by them, HH included. If they kept all the jackets at this level, competition would have a much harder time keeping up.

 

[PeterRocco]

Hi
I’m In LOVE

 

[Edward]

Given how much marketing mileage Schott have had from the Durable that Brando wore, I always wondered why they never seem to be intersted in replicating it. I guess the average person in the mass market for which they are aiming feels the current designs are close enough.

Minor differences yes, that's to be expected. The differences I was referring to were not slight or minor......Plenty of Army /Navy stores and other clothing stores in New york sell Schott leather jackets... I've handled many of them and there are some very poor examples of them out there. I am for the record a Schott fan.

It does seem that new Schotts can be prey to some of the issues I've noticed with cheaper alternatives among other imports (which, from a UK perspective, Schott are) - certainly, with anything mass-market buying off the rack, it's worth going through all the jackets on the rail to find the best one. Lewis went through a stage like that in the seventies too. I should imagine that the bigger the market you chase and the higher the unit number the more likely there is to be that level of variation. My experience of Schott is, to be fair, a little bit more consistent than yours has obviously been - no idea whether that's to do with what we get sent to the UK or just chance. Could be either, really.

Not sure if I would describe myself asa 'fan' per se, though I do like Schott. I'd be open to adding a 118 to my wardrobe alongside my 618, though at the price of them new now, it would have to be a used bargain find as they've pushe past the ceiling on what I'd be prepared to pay for a new one. The nicest Schott I remember seeing was a D pocket version that was otherwise identical to the standard 118/618 line (i.e. not one of the uber-rare 'special editions'), I think it might have been from the 60s or the 80s.

One thing I do really like about the SChotts as compared to so many other P types is that they nail the length. I see far too many 'fashion' copies of the Perfecto which are in the region of 29" back length, and they look absurd, all out of proportion.

I bought a Schott from his store a few months back. I think the owner said he was from Tunisia. Nice guy. The jacket I bought was made in China though for the Japanese market. The styling and fit was really nice but the leather left a little to be desired.

Interesting - never heard of a Chinese made one. That must have a larger profit margin, given divergence in labour costs. Interesting it's for the Japanese market - do they sell them at the same retail asthe US ones, or are they a bit cheaper? I can imagine the jacket niche crowd might prize the American made option, though most mainstream buyers, especially where both are imports, won't care so much. It would be interesting to compare rerpesentative samples of the two side by side. As the stigma of the old stereotypes of Chinese manufacture begins to break down, I suspect we'll begin to see a lot more premium products made there.

 

[PeterRocco]

Hello
Thank You for Sharing Your Thoughs on SCHOTT Jackets and Marketing.
The only SCHOTT Jacket I bought New was a 118. I was working in New York City Around the year 2011, and bough it in a SCHOTT Authorized retailer.
I wear at that time a Size 54 So the Larger Sizes They kept in the Storage Room. I asked to Bring More then One to Compair. I did find Differences in Leather Quality in certain Leather Panels and Feel and Weight.
I picked the Best One. That was my First New SCHOTT Jacket I Bought since 1973 and my Last. I like you said Look for Pre-Owned in Like New Condition. They are out there you just have to surch. I do find Ebay a Great Place. Just bought a 618 in Brown Steerhide from a Man who lives in Canada. New No Tags. Don’t fit him.
SCHOTT does try to keep Quality Up the Best they can.
Like RED WING BOOTS They make Beautiful IRON RANGERS for the Japan Market that are not Sold in USA. Better Leather and really nice Design. The Largest Size is 10 USA.
SCHOTT I’m sure does the same. Sending some Higher Quality Jackets Overseas.
Nice talking to You
Pete

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Seems Schott MC style jackets are more highly valued across the pond for some reason ( perhaps they do send over better quality jackets ). I've never been a huge fan although I have owned quite a few off and on over the years. I found that the quality of Schott leather could be good or bad/hit and miss. Linings often have loose threads as well. Presumably since they are mass produced.
HD

 

[PeterRocco]

Hi
So Was talking to a Person who Post a lot on SCHOTT’S FOURM.
He brought up a Good Point. In the Past 20-25 Years a lot of Leather Tanneries in America have closed. Due to different reasons. So SCHOTT has to make due what Leather they can get. Red Wing Boots own their own Tannerie. So they can control Quality of the Leather they use to make their Boots.

 

[Seb Lucas]

I would want evidence before I accepted the proposition that Schott is unable to source good leather these days. Good leather seems to be readily available all over the world. Even the cheap jacket maker Wested has access to some nice hides.

When I contacted Schott last year, Jerri stated that modern customers have a preference for lighter leathers - hence the words 'light weight leather' appearing in some write ups for newer Schott jackets.

Many people who buy Schott today are looking for leather that is not confronting. Maybe in trying to reach that more fashion orientated market Schott have settled on hides many here do not appreciate as much.

For the record, 4 years ago (so not all that recent) I bought two new jackets from Schott. The leather and workmanship was in my view excellent. The hides were under 3oz, but not by much. The Schott steer-hide I had was among the best hide I have ever owned.

 

[PeterRocco]

Hi
You Brought Up a Good Point about some people want a SCHOTT M/C just for Fashion. Want Jackets Made Longer and Not So Heavy. But still go make a Different M/C for them. Their 118 and 618 whitch a lot of People who Ride Buy those Styles. Keep that Leather Thicker. You Say just bought two SCHOTTS their WEIGHT Was UNDER 3oz. It’s Listed in SCHOTTS Description Should be 3 to 3.5oz Leather.
Thank You for Your Thoughts on this Subject. Very Helpful.
Sincerely
Pete

 

[Seb Lucas]

My jackets were not marked as any particular thickness. One of them was labeled as a lighter weight hide. I personally don't like thick hides. They were still around 2.5oz which is borderline too heavy for my taste.

If Schott are saying the leather is 3oz then it should be so. Do we actually have any evidence the leather is not as advertised, or is it just a case of people not liking the feel of it and self-assessing the leather's weight?

Getting a lighter hide may not just be a 'fashion' thing. Most of the vintage jackets I have seen from the 1950's and 40's - I am only talking utility jackets, not bike jackets - are thinner than the modern repros by places like Aero. If you want a daily wearer and you don't ride, a lighter leather may be more practical and enjoyable to wear. How many people are wearing a Schott jacket on a bike? I don't know the answer But I would imagine it is a very low percentage of owners.