Schott Cow/Steer vs Horsehide.. can't decide.

[Colin G]

I have a 689 as well, great jacket. Sizing is tricky as you point out as Schott recommends you go up one size in this model. I ordered one size up and wish I had just gone with my regular suit size. I kept mine and use it to layer in the cool weather.

I bought mine about 14 years ago. I took their advice also and bought a 42 instead of a 40.

The 42 was a bit large on me. I also lost some weight over the last two years so it was just too big and had to be loved by someone else.

I did all the hard work breaking it in for the guy who bought it.

I do kind of want to buy one again in a size that fits but I am afraid I may not like it. I fought with the one I had and wish it had a higher arm hole placement but blamed the large size, not the jacket.

 

[Edward]

I’m not sure what number her Perfecto. I don’t know much about them and didn’t look for one. I just saw the label which read Schott Perfecto, Made In The USA and size 40. She told me she purchased it around 1980.

Going by the photo, I should think it's a 618 - the 611, from memory, doesn't have the Schott-logo on the studs, which this does,and there's no sign of 613-type stars on the epaulettes (can't remember exactly, but I think the 613 also had plain stud fronts). I see on your wife the 'handwarmer' pockets also sit very far around to the side, rather than on the front like most jackets of this style. I always found that I struggled to get at them with the jacket on, even fastened - but then handwarmers are largely decorative for me anyhow, as I prefer to stick me paws in me trews.

I’ll take a picture or two after she gets home. But it’s a custom paint job. Whoever did it was not only an artist, but knew what they were doing when it came to painting a jacket since the paint still looks nearly perfect after nearly 40 years...no paint loss or fading, as far as I could tell keeping in mind that a teenager possessed it from about 2002 to 2007.

- Ian

Yes, the survival of the artwork is impressive!

As per request:

- Ian

Very eighties feel on the jacket art- I can see why a teenage relative would have appreciated that as the eighties came back in as a retro trend. Is it just artistic licence, or did it reference a specific album or such?

 

[ai00344]

I bought mine about 14 years ago. I took their advice also and bought a 42 instead of a 40.

The 42 was a bit large on me. I also lost some weight over the last two years so it was just too big and had to be loved by someone else.

I did all the hard work breaking it in for the guy who bought it.

I do kind of want to buy one again in a size that fits but I am afraid I may not like it. I fought with the one I had and wish it had a higher arm hole placement but blamed the large size, not the jacket.

Sorry man but mines a 42 or I would provide the measurements for you. Anyone out there have a 40 they could measure up for Colin and I??

 

[EmergencyIan]

Going by the photo, I should think it's a 618 - the 611, from memory, doesn't have the Schott-logo on the studs, which this does,and there's no sign of 613-type stars on the epaulettes (can't remember exactly, but I think the 613 also had plain stud fronts). I see on your wife the 'handwarmer' pockets also sit very far around to the side, rather than on the front like most jackets of this style. I always found that I struggled to get at them with the jacket on, even fastened - but then handwarmers are largely decorative for me anyhow, as I prefer to stick me paws in me trews.



Yes, the survival of the artwork is impressive!



Very eighties feel on the jacket art- I can see why a teenage relative would have appreciated that as the eighties came back in as a retro trend. Is it just artistic licence, or did it reference a specific album or such?

Thanks for the additional info!...as I still cannot find a number anywhere on it, though it appears that a couple of tags were cut off years ago.

I don’t think the art refers to a specific album. As far as I know it was just artistic license, but I’ll ask.

- Ian

 

[Edward]

Thanks for the additional info!...as I still cannot find a number anywhere on it, though it appears that a couple of tags were cut off years ago.

I don’t think the art refers to a specific album. As far as I know it was just artistic license, but I’ll ask.

- Ian

Possible, it's the sort of thing that is easily pulled off. I'm not sure where the model number wentg in 1980, though sicne the 1990s at least it's been inside the coin pocket on the left ower front, so might be worth looking there just in case.

 

[Monitor]

As per request:

- Ian

That's actually very, very nice!

 

[EmergencyIan]

Possible, it's the sort of thing that is easily pulled off. I'm not sure where the model number wentg in 1980, though sicne the 1990s at least it's been inside the coin pocket on the left ower front, so might be worth looking there just in case.

I didn’t know to check there. I did it and it’s actuqlly a 118. I read about 118’s and they are supposed to be a less trim cut and an inch longer in the body, but that earlier on the fit was trimmed in the 118 than it is now. I can only tell you that I wear a 38, at my heaviest, and this size 40 was trim on me. I can’t imagine how trim the other 6 model Perfecto’s must be. Also, it’s still a bit shiny or plastic-y...like any brand new front quarter horse hide jacket would be. I mean, it’s not quite that bad, it it’s certainly not truly broken in, as you probably can see. The leather is heavy and seems pretty hearty.

By the way, I ask my wife and the jacket art is not album related.

- Ian

 

[EmergencyIan]

That's actually very, very nice!

Thanks! She agrees.

She wore it to work yesterday and she told me that several girls in Manhattan, on the street (and at HBO), came up randomly and asked to touch tre jacket. Apparently they liked the painting on it, but what they really liked is the leather. My wife said they’re probably used to women’s lesser quality leather jackets. She was saying that in 1980 you couldn’t find jackets like that made for women. Even if they would have been available, she probably would have still wanted the Perfecto since the purchase was Punk related.

- Ian

 

[Edward]

I didn’t know to check there. I did it and it’s actuqlly a 118. I read about 118’s and they are supposed to be a less trim cut and an inch longer in the body, but that earlier on the fit was trimmed in the 118 than it is now. I can only tell you that I wear a 38, at my heaviest, and this size 40 was trim on me. I can’t imagine how trim the other 6 model Perfecto’s must be. Also, it’s still a bit shiny or plastic-y...like any brand new front quarter horse hide jacket would be. I mean, it’s not quite that bad, it it’s certainly not truly broken in, as you probably can see. The leather is heavy and seems pretty hearty.

By the way, I ask my wife and the jacket art is not album related.

- Ian

118s were always naked cowhide - originally, that was the only difference between them and the 618/613. If memory serves, they were first introduced around 1978, but it wasn't until the late 80s / early 90s that they were sized differently than the 618/613. Certainly sounds like your wife's jacket fits the same as the 618 I have. The change in sizing wasn't anything new to the pattern, though - they simply switched the labels so what was previously labelled a 40 was labelled a 38, a 38 a 36, and so on. The jacket your wife bought in 1980 labelled a 40 would now be labelled a 38 but otherwise identical. As it is, a 1980-made 118 would be identical to a same-labelled-size 1980 made 618, the only difference being that where the latter is treated steer, the 118 is naked cowhide.

Thanks! She agrees.

She wore it to work yesterday and she told me that several girls in Manhattan, on the street (and at HBO), came up randomly and asked to touch tre jacket. Apparently they liked the painting on it, but what they really liked is the leather. My wife said they’re probably used to women’s lesser quality leather jackets. She was saying that in 1980 you couldn’t find jackets like that made for women. Even if they would have been available, she probably would have still wanted the Perfecto since the purchase was Punk related.

- Ian

I've never seen a definitive figure on this, but I have the impression that the women's jackets are a much later thing - mid eighties, when the look first hit mainstream fashion in a big way in the US, I think. Of course, Joan Jett wore a "man's" Perfecto style anyhow, so that set a certain standard for the punk girls who probably didn't care about that sort of thing (or if they did, well.... challenging outdated gender-norm stereotypes was a big part of what punk was always about for the ladies). Notably, in the current Schott ladies line, the only one that looks close to a 'real' jacket (as opposed to 'fashion lamb') is actually fastened the traditional 'male' way (assuming the photos on their website haven't been reversed!): https://www.schottnyc.com/products/women-motorcycle-jacket.htm?catID=16

 

[EmergencyIan]

118s were always naked cowhide - originally, that was the only difference between them and the 618/613. If memory serves, they were first introduced around 1978, but it wasn't until the late 80s / early 90s that they were sized differently than the 618/613. Certainly sounds like your wife's jacket fits the same as the 618 I have. The change in sizing wasn't anything new to the pattern, though - they simply switched the labels so what was previously labelled a 40 was labelled a 38, a 38 a 36, and so on. The jacket your wife bought in 1980 labelled a 40 would now be labelled a 38 but otherwise identical. As it is, a 1980-made 118 would be identical to a same-labelled-size 1980 made 618, the only difference being that where the latter is treated steer, the 118 is naked cowhide.




I've never seen a definitive figure on this, but I have the impression that the women's jackets are a much later thing - mid eighties, when the look first hit mainstream fashion in a big way in the US, I think. Of course, Joan Jett wore a "man's" Perfecto style anyhow, so that set a certain standard for the punk girls who probably didn't care about that sort of thing (or if they did, well.... challenging outdated gender-norm stereotypes was a big part of what punk was always about for the ladies). Notably, in the current Schott ladies line, the only one that looks close to a 'real' jacket (as opposed to 'fashion lamb') is actually fastened the traditional 'male' way (assuming the photos on their website haven't been reversed!): https://www.schottnyc.com/products/women-motorcycle-jacket.htm?catID=16

Edward, thanks for all of that insight! Wow! That’s a lot of great information. It puts things together and just informs. I’ll pass this onto my wife. One thing she did mention, yesterday, when we were out, is how heavy she feels the jacket is. She said that she can’t believe she wore it around so much all those years ago. Part of that is that most women’s clothing doesn’t have any weight to it, at all, these days, when compared to men’s garments. Therefore, she isn’t used to it. On top of that, she’s almost 40 years older than she was when she first began wearing the thing. I suppose that makes a difference, as well.

Again, thank you for all of the great insight, Edward!

- Ian