Schott Cow/Steer vs Horsehide.. can't decide.

[Lost Ronin]

In about to finally order my Schott jacket. I'm down to my last 25 to 30lbs left to lose. If I'm going to spend the money I want to look good in my new jacket.

My trouble is this.. I've always wanted a 618HH which is horsehide of course. I've heard that horse is different and ages better and is naturally more water resistant.

Of course the cast majority of Schott jackets I've seen are in cow or steer hide. So there is nothing wrong with those choices either.

I do like the 626 for it's slimmer fit but it's only on cow hide. To make the decision more difficult there is the 613SH which is the classic 613/618 cut but slimmer and in horsehide.

The humanity. I'm thinking I'll have to order all 3 and return two or even one. LOL this is going to hurt. Someone here must understand my pain.

 

[sweetfights]

We do feel your pain.
But, buying all three with return options is a good plan in my opinion.

 

[Harris HTM]

I own the 618 in both steer and horse. They are both great jackets. The steer is much heavier and broke in really easy and fast. The horse was initially stiffer, still not broken in, but it developped amazing grain and creases. The only disadvantage of the horse is that it is really shiny, especially when new looks almost like a vinyl jacket.

 

[Carlos840]

According to Gail at Schott, cow and steer are the same hides, they just have a different finish.
The cow is a naked finish, that isn't really waterproof but will show age fast.
The steer has more of a sheen, but i would not call it shiny, it has a thicker topcoat and is more resistant to wear and water.
The horse Schott uses is basically a mirror finish leather, super shiny, super waterproof, super tough, but it will take ages to show grain and wear.

It's a very personal decision, i went with the steer for my 644, the cow of the 141 was too naked for me, the horse was too shiny.
Thickness wise, cow and steer are the same, but steer is more rigid when new.
Horse is even more rigid, not sure about the thickness as Schott has used thin hides in the past and used bonded fabric to make it seem thicker. Not sure they still do that now.

 

[Monitor]

What @Carlos840 and @Harris HTM said. Though I find naked cowhide to be the heaviest. At least the few jackets I had. Steer is a very tough hide, though.

As for the horsehide, yeah, it starts off looking like a plastic garbage bag but it ages extremely well. Hard to find a better looking jacket than a well worn in Schott HH. Though not many get there... Sadly.

They're all really nice jackets, though. You can't go wrong with either though I'd hunt for one on eBay as they've gotten really pricey as of late and getting the right fit can really be a gamble. But if you land a good Schott Perfecto, you're pretty much done.

 

[Carlos840]

What @Carlos840 and @Harris HTM said. Though I find naked cowhide to be the heaviest. At least the few jackets I had. Steer is a very tough hide, though.

As for the horsehide, yeah, it starts off looking like a plastic garbage bag but it ages extremely well. Hard to find a better looking jacket than a well worn in Schott HH. Though not many get there... Sadly.

They're all really nice jackets, though. You can't go wrong with either though I'd hunt for one on eBay as they've gotten really pricey as of late and getting the right fit can really be a gamble. But if you land a good Schott Perfecto, you're pretty much done.

From Oren Schott, CEO of Schott:

"Cowhide and steerhide are the same animal. After a cows hide is tanned it can fall into several categories. Steerhide is one category where the tannage has sealed the pores of the cow. Steerhide is often considered a "finished" leather because of this and is more resistant to the elements than an unfinished "naked" hide. Because of it's percieved durability, it's name was taken from the male cow giving us the name Steerhide."

The name "steerhide" has no relevance to whether the animal was male or female, just the finish!

 

[Monitor]

Oh, I know, just that the top coating, or the finish they apply to the steer is most damage resilient among the three. Cowhide will start showing signs of use (scratches, faded edges, etc.) much sooner than Steer.

Though, of approx. 10 Schott jackets I've handled, ones in naked cowhide were considerably heavier than steer jackets. This beast of a 118 was exactly 3kg.

 

[dannyk]

Get the 613SH. I bought one from a user here actually. They wore it like twice and didn’t like the fit, it happened to be exactly my fit and I got it for a super reasonable price. But I say this as someone who owns a 618HH, and has handled a lot of Schott jackets. The 613SH is in a different class for Schott. More akin to a Horween style of horse. It’s thicker. A lot thicker than their standard horse. It’s a 3.5oz horse hide as opposed to the 2.75-3oz you get normally from Schott. It has the same finish that their normal horse has so it takes ages to break in. But @Monitor is one of the few guys around here who knows that for all the dislike Schott gets most of it deserved, a truly broken in Schott horse gets insane creases and drape. So if you’re set on getting a Schott jacket get the 613SH. It’s slim cut rock n roll style, but with a much much thicker hide that will break in beautifully.

 

[Carlos840]

Oh, I know, just that the top coating, or the finish they apply to the steer is most damage resilient among the three. Cowhide will start showing signs of use (scratches, faded edges, etc.) much sooner than Steer.

Saying that, it is still a pretty fragile finish, my steer 644 is showing wear similar to what you would expect from CXL.
If you scratch it with your nail it will go through easily, it will also show wear in rubbing areas pretty fast.
It is not as resistant as Vanson comp weight leather for example, that leather feels like it could resist a cheese grater attack without showing a mark! No amount of nail scratching can do anything to it! I have read similar things about the leather Lost Worlds uses.
I was under the impression that the Schott Horse would be the toughest finish...

 

[Harris HTM]

It’s thicker. A lot thicker than their standard horse.

Thanks for the info, I was really wondering if the SH was the same as the 618hh.

my steer 644 is showing wear similar to what you would expect from CXL.

My 618 steer has also shown wear similar to cxl in the sleeves around the wrists but not in the shoulders (during commuting I walk an hour a day carrying a backpack, the shoulder strips have left their marks on my brown cxl aeros but not on my perfectos).

 

[Monitor]

a truly broken in Schott horse gets insane creases and drape. So if you’re set on getting a Schott jacket get the 613SH. It’s slim cut rock n roll style, but with a much much thicker hide that will break in beautifully.

Absolutely. I've had mine long enough - and a lot of other jackets since - to now know that it doesn't get much better than a truly worn & broken in Schott HH. Sadly, it's something we rarely get to see since most people quickly seem to upgrade to something else. . .
But yeah, hard to believe the 613 is that much different compared to the 618/118 but the difference is huge. That style is 10x cooler than anything they're making. Or have been making. In my book, 613 (horsehide or cowhide) IS a Schott Perfecto.

Saying that, it is still a pretty fragile finish, my steer 644 is showing wear similar to what you would expect from CXL.
If you scratch it with your nail it will go through easily, it will also show wear in rubbing areas pretty fast.
It is not as resistant as Vanson comp weight leather for example, that leather feels like it could resist a cheese grater attack without showing a mark! No amount of nail scratching can do anything to it! I have read similar things about the leather Lost Worlds uses.
I was under the impression that the Schott Horse would be the toughest finish...

Huh, your's a newer jacket, right? The finish on those few 70's or 80's Steer jackets I owned was seriously tougher than anything I've seen on even a Vanson. Leather wasn't nearly as thick (or nearly as nice) of course, but the top coat was virtually damage-proof. Very plastic-y, tho and I can't say I was much a fan of it to be honest but otherwise, it was exactly what you'd described Vanson hide. And it wouldn't peel off like with some other leather. Just what you'd be after on a bike jacket, I guess.

 

[Carlos840]

Absolutely. I've had mine long enough - and a lot of other jackets since - to now know that it doesn't get much better than a truly worn & broken in Schott HH. Sadly, it's something we rarely get to see since most people quickly seem to upgrade to something else. . .
But yeah, hard to believe the 613 is that much different compared to the 618/118 but the difference is huge. That style is 10x cooler than anything they're making. Or have been making. In my book, 613 (horsehide or cowhide) IS a Schott Perfecto.



Huh, your's a newer jacket, right? The finish on those few 70's or 80's Steer jackets I owned was seriously tougher than anything I've seen on even a Vanson. Leather wasn't nearly as thick (or nearly as nice) of course, but the top coat was virtually damage-proof. Very plastic-y, tho and I can't say I was much a fan of it to be honest but otherwise, it was exactly what you'd described Vanson hide. And it wouldn't peel off like with some other leather. Just what you'd be after on a bike jacket, I guess.

Yep, my Schott is from 2012 and my Vanson from 2016.

 

[Hh121]

This is Legendary horsehide Trojan jacket, made by Schott. No words needed

 

[Harris HTM]

This is Legendary horsehide Trojan jacket, made by Schott. No words needed

It's a pity they stopped making this beauty.

 

[Monitor]

Jackets made for Legendary are supposedly made from the thickest and heaviest HH.

 

[Lost Ronin]

Get the 613SH. I bought one from a user here actually. They wore it like twice and didn’t like the fit, it happened to be exactly my fit and I got it for a super reasonable price. But I say this as someone who owns a 618HH, and has handled a lot of Schott jackets. The 613SH is in a different class for Schott. More akin to a Horween style of horse. It’s thicker. A lot thicker than their standard horse. It’s a 3.5oz horse hide as opposed to the 2.75-3oz you get normally from Schott. It has the same finish that their normal horse has so it takes ages to break in. But @Monitor is one of the few guys around here who knows that for all the dislike Schott gets most of it deserved, a truly broken in Schott horse gets insane creases and drape. So if you’re set on getting a Schott jacket get the 613SH. It’s slim cut rock n roll style, but with a much much thicker hide that will break in beautifully.

How would you say the fit and sizing is for the 613S jacket ? What is your chest size versus the size you ordered and the resulting fitment ?
They are expensive jackets and I'd like to get it right. LOL.

Edit.. how would you say they compare for warmth?
Is the 613 being heavier than the 618 a warmer jacket? We have limited jacket weather here in Florida.

Thanks for the input everyone. It's much appreciated.

 

[Harris HTM]

How would you say the fit and sizing is for the 613S jacket ? What is your chest size versus the size you ordered and the resulting fitment ?
They are expensive jackets and I'd like to get it right. LOL.

Edit.. how would you say they compare for warmth?
Is the 613 being heavier than the 618 a warmer jacket? We have limited jacket weather here in Florida.

Thanks for the input everyone. It's much appreciated.

The diference in leather thickness will not affect how warm the jacket is. It is the lining you should check. The 618, both in steer and horse, have a quilted lining, rather warm as fashion items in warm climates but probably ideal for riding.

 

[Lost Ronin]

The diference in leather thickness will not affect how warm the jacket is. It is the lining you should check. The 618, both in steer and horse, have a quilted lining, rather warm as fashion items in warm climates but probably ideal for riding.

I imagine so. I hope we get some good cool weather soon.

I like the horsehide but the 626 is supposedly a better option here. But in the next few years I plan on moving. But that could just be an excuse to buy another jacket.

 

[dannyk]

Lining is the same liner no difference. Hide thickness will not effect warmth at all. Makes the slightest difference for wind resistance, but nothing at all for actual temps. I got a size 38. If odd sizes exist I would have done a 37 for just a bit more of a snug fit, but a 36 would have been beyond tight ha. Im right around a 38 in the chest. So I would say you can size spot on, and if it isnt the correct fit as long as you leave all the tags on they will swap it out for the correct size. So just dont get excited and rip all the tags off before you try it on! Have you ever handled a Schott jacket before at all? Because the 613sh really is in a class of its own when it comes to the base model Perfectos they make. Love my 618hh, but it is what a lot of guys around here call thinner. Comparatively I have a Vanson Chopper in original style comp. weight as I hear it may have changed recently. Its a suit of damned armor. The 613sh not only is the classic Schott one star, but cut tighter and more rock and roll, but it is standard 3.5oz horse. Theres no comparison next to my 618hh. And give it time to truly break in. In a year or two the creases in the sleeves, the way it falls on your shoulders, the grain popping. As nice if not nicer than what the more expensive makers offer. Now granted those more expensive makers have the nicer stitching, nicer hardware, more customization. But yeah looks capital B, beautiful. In conclusion order your exact size, dont remove the tags just in case, and give it enough time and wear to see what @Monitor and I rave about.

 

[Lost Ronin]

Lining is the same liner no difference. Hide thickness will not effect warmth at all. Makes the slightest difference for wind resistance, but nothing at all for actual temps. I got a size 38. If odd sizes exist I would have done a 37 for just a bit more of a snug fit, but a 36 would have been beyond tight ha. Im right around a 38 in the chest. So I would say you can size spot on, and if it isnt the correct fit as long as you leave all the tags on they will swap it out for the correct size. So just dont get excited and rip all the tags off before you try it on! Have you ever handled a Schott jacket before at all? Because the 613sh really is in a class of its own when it comes to the base model Perfectos they make. Love my 618hh, but it is what a lot of guys around here call thinner. Comparatively I have a Vanson Chopper in original style comp. weight as I hear it may have changed recently. Its a suit of damned armor. The 613sh not only is the classic Schott one star, but cut tighter and more rock and roll, but it is standard 3.5oz horse. Theres no comparison next to my 618hh. And give it time to truly break in. In a year or two the creases in the sleeves, the way it falls on your shoulders, the grain popping. As nice if not nicer than what the more expensive makers offer. Now granted those more expensive makers have the nicer stitching, nicer hardware, more customization. But yeah looks capital B, beautiful. In conclusion order your exact size, dont remove the tags just in case, and give it enough time and wear to see what @Monitor and I rave about.

Wow thanks again. I've actually not handled a Schott jacket in many years. Around 25 years or so. When I lived in Boston and NYC my work dictated I wore suits so I owned a few nice over coats but never a Schott. Better late than never right ?

I'll order mine soon true to size and see how it goes. This is exciting.