Schott 618HH owners in 38 and/or 40? I have some questions!

[blobsterroll]

First poster here, been lurking for a while in this great resource of a site.

So I am squeezing the trigger and Im going to buy my very first Schott Jacket, however I am stationed in Germany so I wont be trying any jackets any time soon (although my hometown is in the NJ/NYC area). I will be using it when riding my Harley but it will be a fashion jacket as a priority as I have a dedicated riding jacket anyways. However some questions and considerations to those that had this jacket since it cost quite a pretty penny.


1. I measure at 39 inches around my chest, I am planning to wear the jacket mostly unzipped except when Im on a bike. What will be the main difference in size between 38 and 40? Is the difference drastic or tiny? I will be layering with a Hoodie at the most and I heard leather stretches some (not sure about Horsehide though). So I dont know if I should get my exact size of 40 and sacrifice a slimmer silhouette for only a little bit of room. With that said, I am into bodybuilding and will be getting bigger through bottled/injectible assistance soon and worry the Horsehide wont stretch enough to accomodate my hopefully bigger physique (trying to move up a T-shirt size from SM/M to M/L).


2. Will the Horsehide shine fade? How long will that take? I am also thinking about getting it custom made through Schott and replacing the hardware to black. Will the black hardware make it look cheap/vinyl-ish and clash too much? Will it cost that much more and will it be worth it?


Any insight is appreciated and thank you all for your $0.02

 

[Guppy]

1. Sizing is too personal, but if you're body building, you might as well go bigger. You can probably wear either a 38 or 40 now, and whether it works for you or not depends on what you want it to look like and how practical you want it to be with regard to layering under. This is a jacket you could easily wear for 20-25 years if not longer, and you can expect that you'll get bigger over the years. While you don't want to buy a jacket anticipating your future "fat elvis" years, it's nice if you don't have to part with it too quickly because you're still filling out.
2. The shine will wear off. Schott HH jackets have a plastic-y, vinyl-y look to them at first. They break in and wear very, very nicely, though, and if you wear it a lot, you'll see that pretty quickly. A year or two in and it will be night and day. Don't do anything to it other than wear it and wipe it down with a damp rag or sponge if it gets dirty or covered in dead bugs from riding. Don't treat it, don't abuse it, don't try to accelerate the wear. Just wear it naturally, as often pas possible, and let nature do it's thing, and you will be rewarded.

 

[blobsterroll]

1. Sizing is too personal, but if you're body building, you might as well go bigger. You can probably wear either a 38 or 40 now, and whether it works for you or not depends on what you want it to look like and how practical you want it to be with regard to layering under. This is a jacket you could easily wear for 20-25 years if not longer, and you can expect that you'll get bigger over the years. While you don't want to buy a jacket anticipating your future "fat elvis" years, it's nice if you don't have to part with it too quickly because you're still filling out.
2. The shine will wear off. Schott HH jackets have a plastic-y, vinyl-y look to them at first. They break in and wear very, very nicely, though, and if you wear it a lot, you'll see that pretty quickly. A year or two in and it will be night and day. Don't do anything to it other than wear it and wipe it down with a damp rag or sponge if it gets dirty or covered in dead bugs from riding. Don't treat it, don't abuse it, don't try to accelerate the wear. Just wear it naturally, as often pas possible, and let nature do it's thing, and you will be rewarded.

Hey thanks for the response man.

1. Understood about the fit being personal, but there is such a thing as a bad and good fit, ya know? And thats one of the concerns. And I am more asking about the difference between the two sizes really, like some clothes I bought (especially with cheaper brands like Express) the size difference between consecutive sizes are minute as hell and one would often wonder why the size difference exist in the first place.

So I guess the tl;dr is the size difference between 38 and 40 that drastic when layering? Or can I size down, wear a hoodie and squeeze into it albeit being tighter?

2. Damn. I know you just said not to do anything to it, but any way I can accelerate it some just so it get past the shiny phase sooner? *Gulp* maybe a deep breath and some acetone? And related to question 1, does Horsehide stretch over time and by how much?

EDIT: Would black hardware work?

 

[Carlos840]

Welcome,
Here is a sizing chart for a Schott 613HH, it's not going to be that same as the 618HH (618 is longer) but it should give you an idea as to how measurements change as you go up and down a size:

I agree with @Guppy though, it's a very personal thing, some like it tighter, some looser.

Regarding the shine, IMO even after quite a bit of wear Schott HH will still be one of the shiniest on the market.
At least both mine are when compared to all my other HH. It's not a nasty plasticky shine, but it is definitely shiny.

Here you can see a broken in 613HH:

And here is a Legendary USA Trojan (made by Schott) also in HH (both 613 and Trojan are from 2006):

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/legendary-products-inc-trojan-horse.96661/

Lastly, here are a couple pics comparing Schott HH on the right and Lost Worlds HH on the left:

edit: KEEP LEATHER AWAY FROM ACETONE!
edit 2: Leather jackets don't really stretch.

 

[blobsterroll]

edit: KEEP LEATHER AWAY FROM ACETONE!
edit 2: Leather jackets don't really stretch.

Sweet! Thank you! Although I'll have to look up how to measure one of the jackets I have (Chest "in half"???)

I really thought leather stretches, its been touted this entire time every time I read about jackets.

But beautiful jacket man, how long have you had it? ANd how often do you wear it? I'll be wearing mind pretty often as I am liberating clutter from my closet and that jacket will be my go to jacket.

 

[Monitor]

Leather won't stretch. At all. Best you double check the sizing directly with Schott but I'd stick to the size number they recommend and not go with the "Size down" advice. From the looks of it, you're either a sz. 40 or a 42. The latter if you're serious about them gains. Don't get a jacket that's too small, even if it looks good unzipped. You'll end up hating it.

Shine will chill but it'll take a while. 618HH is very shiny, though and if you feel it might bother you, it will. Gonna take a long time till the jacket becomes the way you want it so... I dunno, I'm not sure you'll enjoy the long wait. Luckily, you got some great alternatives by Schott so I think it'd be wiser you look into these, even if it ends up costing more.

Don't replace the hardware. It will cost a lot and the jacket might end up ruined. Again, rather find a jacket you are 85% - 100% happy with, rather than doing something you might regret and chances are something will go wrong.

519 is a beautiful jacket, too...

118 is a great alternative to the HH, even finer leather and no shine...

And there's always PER...

 

[Carlos840]

Sweet! Thank you! Although I'll have to look up how to measure one of the jackets I have (Chest "in half"???)

I really thought leather stretches, its been touted this entire time every time I read about jackets.

But beautiful jacket man, how long have you had it? ANd how often do you wear it? I'll be wearing mind pretty often as I am liberating clutter from my closet and that jacket will be my go to jacket.

The "in half" means you are measuring the jacket side to side rather than the full circumference.
For example a size 42 will measure 23" from pit to pit, 23x2=46" meaning the jacket has a 46" circumference, so if your chest is 42" you will have 4" of chest ease.

The old "buy your jacket one size too small and stretch it to your body" might work with paper thin lambskin, but if you try that with HH or any decent leather you are going to be disappointed.
I had jackets that were too tight in the shoulders and nothing i tried made it fit. Buy a jacket that fits from the start.

I bought the 613HH used a couple months ago, i have never worn it as it is too short for me...
The Trojan i have had a while, bought it used last year and i wear it quite often.
I have far too many jackets though, so none of them gets that much wear.

 

[blobsterroll]

118 is a great alternative to the HH, even finer leather and no shine...

Yeah if I could try different sizes on, I would. Would have to wait IN THE SUMMER to hopefully be able to go home after this COVID is done and over with to be able to try one, if they even have it in store.

Finer leather? I thought Horsehide is the epitome of leather. Hence why I am excited and overthinking this lol

 

[Monitor]

Finer leather? I thought Horsehide is the epitome of leather. Hence why I am excited and overthinking this lol

Those are all fairy tales. Horsehide, Cowhide, same thing. Schott is using the highest grade leather for their Naked Cowhide products.

 

[blobsterroll]

Those are all fairy tales. Horsehide, Cowhide, same thing. Schott is using the highest grade leather for their Naked Cowhide products.

Well that certainly helped me back down.

So do I understand you correctly that you're saying Horsehide is not worth the hype? Why is it so expensive then? Am I better off getting Cowhide from Schott since its the highest grade? Does that mean they use a lower grade for their horsehide?

 

[Carlos840]

Well that certainly helped me back down.

So do I understand you correctly that you're saying Horsehide is not worth the hype? Why is it so expensive then? Am I better off getting Cowhide from Schott since its the highest grade? Does that mean they use a lower grade for their horsehide?

What he means is that there is a 99.9% chance you and I would not be able to tell Horsehide or Cowhide apart if we didn't know which was which.
There is so much variation between different types of horse hides and so much variation between different types of cow hide that a blanket statement like "horse hide is the epitome of leather" doesn't make much sens, some cowhide will be superior to some horsehide and vice versa.

Regarding Schott's grading, the highest grade cow hides (these are the hides will no visible scars, insect bites etc.) are used on the naked cowhide and the Deluxe Steerhide.
Both of these leather start with the same raw hide, it's just that the steerhide is top coated, the naked cowhide is left naked.

I don't think they have different grades when it comes to HH, they only offer one type of horse as far as i know.

 

[Monitor]

Well that certainly helped me back down.

So do I understand you correctly that you're saying Horsehide is not worth the hype? Why is it so expensive then? Am I better off getting Cowhide from Schott since its the highest grade? Does that mean they use a lower grade for their horsehide?

Horsehide is less common hence the upcharge. It doesn't have any magical properties that make it superior to cowhide. One can be tanned to resemble the other so well nobody can tell the difference. It's not easy to tell the hides apart. Next to impossible without the label.

Is it worth the hype? Depends on whether having a HH jacket will make you feel it's more unique. Then yeah, sure. Otherwise, same thing. Cowhide will more often be heavier, thicker.

All Schott hides are quality stuff, just that they say their Naked Cowhide is the highest grade hide they have. I'm sure horsehide is equally quality. It looks great, no debate there. It's not lower grade hide, just different. Naked Cow feels more natural, more like leather, is all.

 

[Carlos840]

Quick example, only one of these sleeves is made from horse, the other two are cow. Which is which?
Looking at it knowing which is which i can kinda convince myself i can spot differences, but i am sure that if i had to take a test not knowing i would basically be guessing...

(sleeves are in the same order on top and bottom pics, i just took two pics with slightly different angles)

 

[Monitor]

@Carlos840 , 1st one is HH?

Oh, BTW I didn't see your reply earlier when I was writing mine, otherwise I woulda just said agreed.

 

[Guppy]

Hey thanks for the response man.

1. Understood about the fit being personal, but there is such a thing as a bad and good fit, ya know? And thats one of the concerns. And I am more asking about the difference between the two sizes really, like some clothes I bought (especially with cheaper brands like Express) the size difference between consecutive sizes are minute as hell and one would often wonder why the size difference exist in the first place.

So I guess the tl;dr is the size difference between 38 and 40 that drastic when layering? Or can I size down, wear a hoodie and squeeze into it albeit being tighter?

2. Damn. I know you just said not to do anything to it, but any way I can accelerate it some just so it get past the shiny phase sooner? *Gulp* maybe a deep breath and some acetone? And related to question 1, does Horsehide stretch over time and by how much?

EDIT: Would black hardware work?

1. The only way to know for sure is to try on one of each and judge for yourself. I don't have a 618HH, and the fit of Schott jackets varies from model to model, so I can't really offer any insight here. For their 141 model, I did find that sizing down gave me the fit I wanted, but -- big disclaimer -- that means absolutely nothing to you and the fit you want out of a 618HH.

2. Acetone? Some people would, I would never. Seriously, just wear it every chance you get.

3. Black hardware? Of course it would work. If it's what you want, and it's worth it to you to pay the added expense and wait for something subtly unique, who is anyone to tell you not to? That said, the default hardware works just as well. It's all about what you want.

 

[Roll2me]

Quick example, only one of these sleeves is made from horse, the other two are cow. Which is which?
Looking at it knowing which is which i can kinda convince myself i can spot differences, but i am sure that if i had to take a test not knowing i would basically be guessing...

(sleeves are in the same order on top and bottom pics, i just took two pics with slightly different angles)

Middle one is horse?

 

[Carlos840]

Middle one is horse?

Interresting that you are the only one ready to take a guess...
Unfortunately, you are incorrect. I'll give it another day and update the answer.

 

[Monitor]

Interresting that you are the only one ready to take a guess...
Unfortunately, you are incorrect. I'll give it another day and update the answer.

Am I nothing to you? XD

People are afraid to guess. If they get it wrong, their entire world might crumble.

 

[Downunder G Man]

Schott 641HH café racer. This jacket is coming up 6 years old. 44" chest, "of the peg" ( no custom nothing !) STILL smells amazing !
It has worn in beautifully for me. Pics attached. First picture taken today.

Taken a couple months ago

I have also had Schott jackets in steerhide ,both black and "red cherry" ( Cordovan)
Both I sold on to mates who were pestering me to sell them one of my Schott collection.
I would not sell my horsehide HH café racer as in the pics.
I did sell on to another mate a Schott 689H collared café racer I bought on the forum.
He just fell in love with it and I had plenty I suppose
OH AND NO EFFING ACETONE YA HEAR !

 

[Will Zach]

I thought the same as @Monitor, but did not post.
Does that count?