Schott 618/613 one-star Perfecto, then and now (photo heavy)

[Carlos840]

This is beautiful. Freaking beautiful.

It might end up for sale soon...

 

[Vintagestyle]

^^ Interesting thread and topic, I have to agree with Carlos' comments above. All the "standard one-star" Perfectos I have tried were simply too short for me in the torso (and back) and even on a motorcycle they just did not feel right to me. I also still wish this model was offered with a removable liner, or not-quilted liner installed. Otherwise, nice jackets, for a person who can fit them.

Yes, that's true that for riding a motorcycle , it's too short , especialy when the weather is not really hot enough !
That's why î prefered my Vanson F model for that type of weather / temperature , to ride my motorcycle as it was longer and with a removeable fake fur lining ( on top of the regular thin cotton or whatever lining .
That said , on summer or when the weather is hot enough, that's not too much of a problem and it looks so killer ! Lol

 

[Vintagestyle]

You are certainly true about length changing through years , here is a size chart for the 618 that seems more recent , specifying 25" ( although it changes with the size of the jacket ).

The 118 can be ordered in 26" regular back length for size 40 to 46 ( 25" for size 36-38 and 27" for size 48 to 54 ) or two inches longer ( 28" for size 40 to 46 ) .

 

[Vintagestyle]

Is the 613 perfecto having exactly the same fit / measurments as the 618 ?

I tried to find its sizing chart but couldn't find it anywhere !

 

[Carlos840]

Gail in 2016: "The 613 & 618 have the same slim fit, which is a slimmer fit than the 118. The differences between the 618 & 613 is that the 613 has stars on the epaulets, no collar snaps and no logo snaps."

That was true up untill 2019, I dont know how the new S and SH changed things. I assume the 613 and 618 have stayed the same.

 

[Vintagestyle]

The 613SH and 613S appeared in 2019 ?

I thought the 613 horsehide had been reintroduced a few years before that and S model introduced earlier than 2019 as well .
Originaly , the first model of them all , after the ones produced for Beck in 1928 and Harley as well i believe , was the 613 made of horsehide ( it is weird they specified SH for it instead of HH like 618HH but maybe there is a reason !) in the 1940's it seems , before the 618 from what i read !
Some say the 618 appeared in the 50's but the Schott website specifies early 60's for the 618 and because people used to steal stars on the 613 !
It sounds weird to have produced two different models with just the stars difference cause originaly that was the only difference it seems ( i read the nickel color snaps on collar , stamped Schott , only appeared in the 80's ).

I had been told the 618 was the firs model in a Schott store in Paris ...
Whereas Legendaryusa website says :
"This Schott Perfecto 118 is the real thing - as noted by Rin Tanaka, motorcycle jacket historian and author of "Motorcycle Jackets - A Century of Design" published by Schiffer Books."
I would tend to believe more Schott website but i don't know if they kept very precise archives of all that with chronology for more than a century , although it is still the same family who owns Schott since the begining and i think this is great !

 

[Carlos840]

The 613SH and 613S appeared in 2019 ?

I thought the 613 horsehide had been reintroduced a few years before that and S model introduced earlier than 2019 as well .
Originaly , the first model of them all , after the ones produced for Beck in 1928 and Harley as well i believe , was the 613 made of horsehide ( it is weird they specified SH for it instead of HH like 618HH but maybe there is a reason !) in the 1940's it seems , before the 618 from what i read !
Some say the 618 appeared in the 50's but the Schott website specifies early 60's for the 618 and because people used to steal stars on the 613 !
It sounds weird to have produced two different models with just the stars difference cause originaly that was the only difference it seems ( i read the nickel color snaps on collar , stamped Schott , only appeared in the 80's ).

I had been told the 618 was the firs model in a Schott store in Paris ...
Whereas Legendaryusa website says :
"This Schott Perfecto 118 is the real thing - as noted by Rin Tanaka, motorcycle jacket historian and author of "Motorcycle Jackets - A Century of Design" published by Schiffer Books."
I would tend to believe more Schott website but i don't know if they kept very precise archives of all that with chronology for more than a century , although it is still the same family who owns Schott since the begining and i think this is great !

Actually got that wrong, S and SH were released late 2015 early 2016:

Before that you had the regular 613 and 618, which were stared and starless, as well as the 613H.
All these had underarm footballs, which where removed for the S (slim) versions.
The 118 was the longer baggier version.

Really if you want this information you have to spend the hours looking for the right posts on the Schott forum.
Gail, Jason and Schott are always posting useful stuff.

https://www.schottnyc.com/forum/posts/will_there_be_a_613s.htm

 

[Vintagestyle]

Actually got that wrong, S and SH were released late 2015 early 2016:

Before that you had the regular 613 and 618, which were stared and starless, as well as the 613H.
All these had underarm footballs, which where removed for the S (slim) versions.
The 118 was the longer baggier version.

Really if you want this information you have to spend the hours looking for the right posts on the Schott forum.
Gail, Jason and Schott are always posting useful stuff.

https://www.schottnyc.com/forum/posts/will_there_be_a_613s.htm

Yes thanks for your answer .
If i remember well i read somewhere the 118 was made in the 80's ( wikipedia specifies 1977 but specifies early 50's for the 618 whereas Schott story timeline specifies early 60.s for the 618 ) .
It seems ( based on Schott story timeline and wikipedia) that the Steerhide replaced the Horsehide in the early 60's ( due to a decrease of quality of the horsehide back then if i remember well ) .

You mean 613SH ( not 613H ) ?
I don't know why they specify SH and not HH for the 613 horsehide ( whereas they specify 618HH for the 618 in horsehide .
It's just a detail but i was wondering.

Yes, i read some of Gail's posts on Schott forum when i was looking for some infos about all that .
He or she ( not sure if this is a male or female name ) seems to know about Schott history and jackets specs.

 

[Carlos840]

Yes thanks for your answer .
If i remember well i read somewhere the 118 was made in the 80's ( wikipedia specifies 1977 but specifies early 50's for the 618 whereas Schott story timeline specifies early 60.s for the 618 ) .
It seems ( based on Schott story timeline and wikipedia) that the Steerhide replaced the Horsehide in the early 60's ( due to a decrease of quality of the horsehide back then if i remember well ) .

You mean 613SH ( not 613H ) ?
I don't know why they specify SH and not HH for the 613 horsehide ( whereas they specify 618HH for the 618 in horsehide .
It's just a detail but i was wondering.

Yes, i read some of Gail's posts on Schott forum when i was looking for some infos about all that .
He or she ( not sure if this is a male or female name ) seems to know about Schott history and jackets specs.

No, i mean 613H, you are mixing different models together.
613H and 613SH are different and were produced at different times.
Like i said, the 613SH is only 3 years old, before that it was called 613H, the 613H had underarm footballs and a 24" back, the 613SH doesn't have footballs and is 25" long.
The 613H isn't produced anymore, the SH is still in production.

Gail worked at Schott for 30 years, she knows most things Schott related.

(take the Schott storyline with a grain of salt, they are still saying they made the jacket Marlon Brando whore...)

 

[Vintagestyle]

No, i mean 613H, you are mixing different models together.
613H and 613SH are different and were produced at different times.
Like i said, the 613SH is only 3 years old, before that it was called 613H, the 613H had underarm footballs and a 24" back, the 613SH doesn't have footballs and is 25" long.
The 613H isn't produced anymore, the SH is still in production.

Gail worked at Schott for 30 years, she knows most things Schott related.

(take the Schott storyline with a grain of salt, they are still saying they made the jacket Marlon Brando whore...)

Yes i mixed both !
If i remember well , the early 1940's perfecto had no bi swing back ( nor any underarm football which appeared later but i don't remember when ) , isn't it ?

I have always read the Marlon Brando perfecto in the Wild ones was a true 50's Schott customised perfecto , with snaps added on collar , so it doesn't schock me to read they made " Johnny 's/ Marlon perfecto " .

I found an old post from Gail in 2017 on Schott's forum , confirming that and other things i had been told :

"Thank you for the very informative information and hopefully I can help withe the styles 613 and 618 styles. The style 613 is a style number we gave the jacket that was a replica of the original jackwt from the 40's. Actually dating back to the 50's the classic motorcycle style was the style number 618 and was sold with this style number. I checked actual photos from 1953 when the jacket was worn in the movies the Wild Ones, which is the classic 618 jacket and has no collar snaps. The original jacket 618 was designed with no collar snaps, stars on the epaulets, no underarm footballs and in the 50's we did not have logo snaps. Through the years collar snaps were added, stars were removed from epaulets and underarm football were added, but the style remained the same 618 number. When demands arised to bring back the original style of the jacket, the style number 613 was created with the replica styling of the jacket of the 40's. Basically all the older M/C jackets are 618's only when we offered the original version was the style number 613 created. In my oldest 1960 catalog that I can check the style 618 had the optional collar purchase, the 613 represents the original jacket from the 40's/50's when we did not offer an optional collar for the jacket."
The link is :
https://www.schottnyc.com/forum/posts/help_identify_please_1.htm

 

[Vintagestyle]

So , based on that , there was no 613 number style used before 618 as 613 number was created for the repro perfecto with original 1940's spec ( the one called 613S nowdays , without underarm footbals nor any bi swing back although the original did not have the stars ) but i am not sure if 618 was the style number they already used for calling / speaking about the 1940's perfecto or if that 618 denomination came only in the 50's , with the earlier 40's version only called perfecto without any number ( but which already had the 618 jacket appearance of the 50's , with its exact same fit but without being named 618 ) !
At least , Gail confirms that 618 was the first number used to qualify a Schott perfecto ( apart from the Beck 333 or 999 , not sure , used prior to that from 1928 or so , to the late 30's / early 40's when the style changed to what looks like actual 613S ).
Also, from what Gail says ,the perfecto worn by Brando in the Wild ones , was a Schott 618 but customised with some snapps on collar .

Not easy to do not get lost in all the numbers / model, especialy as some appeared and disappeared and changed specs through time or became specified with a different number ! Lol

 

[Monitor]

I can only tell you that the 613 was by far my fav Schott. Fits and feels the best. It was a true rock and roll jacket.

 

[Vintagestyle]

It seems the 118 when first introduced in 1977 , had the same fit as the 618/613 but made with Cowhide instead of Steerhide and was later upgraded to a fuller fit in late 80's to 90's .
Underarm footballs appeared in mid 80's it seems.
Here is the link to Schott's forum where i found that and which seems to have been used to make Schott's timeline :
https://www.schottnyc.com/forum/posts/schott_perfecto_timeline.htm

 

[dannyk]

Just a little update kind of related to this post. Most unfortunate as Gail was super helpful and useful on the Schott forum. She just passed away this past week. I would expect Jason or some new employee to step up their posting. But again Gail was great and very responsive if not always accurate. She is going to be sorely missed there.

 

[Carlos840]

Just a little update kind of related to this post. Most unfortunate as Gail was super helpful and useful on the Schott forum. She just passed away this past week. I would expect Jason or some new employee to step up their posting. But again Gail was great and very responsive if not always accurate. She is going to be sorely missed there.

That sucks, she was always great help.
Even after she retired she still answered her emails, she sent me multiple sizing charts and answered many of my questions.
Thanks Gail.

 

[dannyk]

That sucks, she was always great help.
Even after she retired she still answered her emails, she sent me multiple sizing charts and answered many of my questions.
Thanks Gail.

She helped me more than once. Especially with a limited one of 100 1928 release that was specific to Portugal. Like how the hell did she find that info for me and figure it out? She truly was a huge asset for them. I know I for one will also miss her.

 

[Monitor]

Just a little update kind of related to this post. Most unfortunate as Gail was super helpful and useful on the Schott forum. She just passed away this past week. I would expect Jason or some new employee to step up their posting. But again Gail was great and very responsive if not always accurate. She is going to be sorely missed there.

Sad and shocking. She had just helped me out with something not even three weeks ago. Gail has always, always, always been there, providing info, helping people out with what was basically the same question asked a million times over. But Gail was always there for you which is sort of incredible and speaks volumes of her character. I doubt it Schott forums are going to be the same...

 

[dannyk]

Sad and shocking. She had just helped me out with something not even three weeks ago. Gail has always, always, always been there, providing info, helping people out with what was basically the same question asked a million times over. But Gail was always there for you which is sort of incredible and speaks volumes of her character. I doubt it Schott forums are going to be the same...

Yeah I’ve seen Jason answer a few things recently. But he’s a busy man. After Gail officially retired they kept her on as @Carlos840 said. That was all she did. Unless they hire someone to take that sole job. And even if they did, they won’t have her 30 years of knowledge behind it.

 

[Vintagestyle]

I can only tell you that the 613 was by far my fav Schott. Fits and feels the best. It was a true rock and roll jacket.

You mean the reproduction of original 1940's one , named 613 ( which is in fact an original 618 but with stars ) , with no underarm footballs ( named 613S nowdays ) or the original 1940's perfecto ( which had no number style ) ?

618 is nearly the same except for the schott snapps instead of'plain ones , collar snapps , the stars missing on epaulet and underarm footballs ( which are great to ride a motorcylcle , what this jacket was designed for ) .

If i understood it well , the perfecto always had bi swing back since the 40's isn't it ( since it had the 618 design but with stars , compared to the previous one made for Beck and Harley davidson , made from 1928 to the early 40's , with D pocket ) ?

Sad to read about Gail's death, never was in contact with her if i remembzr well but read several of her posts on Schott 's forum !

 

[roadking04]

Such sad news. Gail was a wonderful, kind, and knowledgeable lady. She will be greatly missed in this hobby.