Schott 618/613 one-star Perfecto, then and now (photo heavy)

[Gamma68]

Comparing a vintage (circa late 1950s to mid 1960s) one-star Schott Perfecto to a 613SH Schott Perfecto from 2018.

The vintage one is steerhide (size 44). The new one is horsehide (size 40).

I thought placing them side-by-side with detailed images would be of interest.

 

[Gamma68]

More images:

 

[Gamma68]

A few things I noticed...

The stitching is finer on the vintage model.
The belt buckle on the 2018 model is 1/4" wider and heavier than on the vintage jacket.
The coin pocket flap on the vintage model is 1/4" longer and wider than on the 2018 jacket.
The pockets are more shallow on the vintage Perfecto.

 

[ton312]

Is it wrong I like the new one better? Both are nice but the new one has a bit more appealing cut to my eye.

 

[Monitor]

Agreed. The back of the jacket is especially nicer on the new one. On the old jacket, it's just a square.

I do prefer the french seam on the "kidney" panel and the buckle is classier. They're both beautiful jacket, in any case.

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

Cool comparison Gamma. Both are stellar but i’m a vintage sorta guy.
B

 

[Gamma68]

There is no right or wrong, just preferences.

The steerhide on the vintage one is exquisite. Wonderfully supple with somewhat of a “tea core” effect where the color is worn or faded. Strong leather scent, too.

 

[Motorbass]

Nice comparison.
Here is my vintage Schott Perfecto 613 - One Star. It's about the same age as yours.

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk

 

[Carlos840]

Hey @Gamma68 what is the back length of your old perfecto?

I just picked up a 613H from 2006 and it has a 24" back.
It seems short, but i have found posts from Gail on the Schott forums from around 2006 saying the back was indeed supposed to be 24" back then. I think they increased that later on to 25" (around 2013 or so they start saying the 613 has a 25" back on the Schott forum.)

Just wondering what the length of real old ones was?

@ksozay if you don't mind measuring a couple of yours too it would be great. Thx

 

[Blackadder]

Agreed. The back of the jacket is especially nicer on the new one. On the old jacket, it's just a square.

I do prefer the french seam on the "kidney" panel and the buckle is classier. They're both beautiful jacket, in any case.

I agree with you on the seam and buckle.

 

[Doctor Damage]

This is something I've pointed out many times: note how the belt on the newer jacket is mounted quite a bit higher than on the old jacket, not only being sewn in higher on the back but passing through higher beltloops on the front. I've seen this consistently in photos of old and new jackets, so it's not just this pair. The higher belt means it doesn't snug tight the actual hem of the jacket which seems dumb in technical/performance terms; not helping is the flare to the bottom of the new jacket which just looks dumb. I have no idea why Schott changed this but it's consistent which means it's part of the design now. You certainly can't get the new jackets to snug around the waist like the Not A Schott jacket worn by A Famous Movie Star in That Motorcycle Movie. The flare looks like something you'd put on woman's jacket, since women's hips tend to do that. Whatever, I guess.

But all that said, superb reference photos by Gamma - thanks for posting!!

 

[Gamma68]

Hey @Gamma68 what is the back length of your old perfecto?

I just picked up a 613H from 2006 and it has a 24" back.
It seems short, but i have found posts from Gail on the Schott forums from around 2006 saying the back was indeed supposed to be 24" back then. I think they increased that later on to 25" (around 2013 or so they start saying the 613 has a 25" back on the Schott forum.)

Just wondering what the length of real old ones was?

@ksozay if you don't mind measuring a couple of yours too it would be great. Thx

Sorry for the slow reply. The length of the old Perfecto from the bottom of the collar is 23.75"

Hope this is helpful.

 

[Vintagestyle]

Sorry to revive this topic but i found it interesting and i have some questions .
I was told the Horsehide 613 and 618 loose their shiny tone to become matte with age but when i see those jackets , it seems they never loose that shiny bright appearance , isn't it ( at least that is what i see on the second one posted , not in the first post comparing vintage SH to recent production 613 said to be HH . That 613 looks like matte SH and doesn't seem as shiny as the other one on the post bellow ) ?

Personaly , that is what i do not like in Schott HH perfectos , compared to Aeroleather perfecto in horsehide .

Also, i noticed on the actual perfecto production ( 618 , 613 ...) , the belt buckle has changed compared to 6 years ago, it is lighter and seems to tarnish faster ( i speak about the belt buckle that has some writtings at the back of the buckle , unlike previous ones used a few years ago ; not sure when they replaced that buckle ).
Did some of you got any problems with the quality of this belt buckle Schott uses in the recent production perfecto ?

 

[Carlos840]

Sorry to revive this topic but i found it interesting and i have some questions .
I was told the Horsehide 613 and 618 loose their shiny tone to become matte with age but when i see those jackets , it seems they never loose that shiny bright appearance , isn't it ( at least that is what i see on the second one posted , not in the first post comparing vintage SH to recent production 613 said to be HH . That 613 looks like matte SH and doesn't seem as shiny as the other one on the post bellow ) ?

Personaly , that is what i do not like in Schott HH perfectos , compared to Aeroleather perfecto in horsehide .

Also, i noticed on the actual perfecto production ( 618 , 613 ...) , the belt buckle has changed compared to 6 years ago, it is lighter and seems to tarnish faster ( i speak about the belt buckle that has some writtings at the back of the buckle , unlike previous ones used a few years ago ; not sure when they replaced that buckle ).
Did some of you got any problems with the quality of this belt buckle Schott uses in the recent production perfecto ?

My 613H is from 2006, it is pretty heavily used i think (that kind of back grain doesn't happen fast on Schott HH!) but is still very very shiny:

It's a nice jacket, but the 23.75" back makes it pretty hard to wear.
The buckle is a Century Canada and it feels fine. I find the Lenzip sleeve zippers more disappointing than the buckle, they really feel cheap and nasty compared to anything else i have handled before.

There are more pictures of my Trojan, in this thread, also 2006 and also Schott HH:

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/legendary-products-inc-trojan-horse.96661/

To me Schott HH is definitely very shiny.
Not obnoxious shiny, but definitely up there, and IME the shine stays there even on broken in jackets.

Edit: I'll try taking better pics tomorrow when the light is better.

 

[AeroFan_07]

^^ Interesting thread and topic, I have to agree with Carlos' comments above. All the "standard one-star" Perfectos I have tried were simply too short for me in the torso (and back) and even on a motorcycle they just did not feel right to me. I also still wish this model was offered with a removable liner, or not-quilted liner installed. Otherwise, nice jackets, for a person who can fit them.

 

[Gamma68]

My 2018 613SH measures 24.25" in length from the bottom of the collar.

The vintage one pictured above measures 23.75"

 

[Vintagestyle]

The length of the back should be 25 " for both 618 and 613 .
If you check Schottnyc.com website ( not the Schott-onlinestore website or named as something like that ) and click on any original perfecto , you can see on the right " compare with similar styles " and if you click on it you will find all the perfecto style refs inline on the same page as a tab , that gives the specificity of each of them , including their standard back length .
It should be 25".
https://www.schottnyc.com/products/steerhide-perfecto.htm

That said, with Schott , as i noticed beeing a user since the mid 80's , there can be quite a lot of differences in the quality between two jackets of the same style / model and size, from the same production year ( or through the years ).
Those differences include leather quality , stitching quality , measurments and quality control ( as well as different hardware through the years ).
So , if you are really picky about the leather you like or not , you better choose your jacket in a shop !
Especialy knowing the prices !

In USA a 618 or 613 SH is 775 $ i believe and a B3 257S about 1300$ but in Europe , Schott sells them 1000 euros for the Perfecto 618/613 SH and 1750 euros for the B3 257S !!!
About 6 years ago those perfecto were sold about 800 euros and the B3 1500 euros !
At a shop retail store , a seller who works there since 2009 told me the B3 was sold about 900 euros back then !
A shop which used to sell the perfecto in Paris France ( not a Schott store ) , told me they were sold 1000 French Francs ( it is 150 euros ) in the early or mid 80's ( must have been more or less the price i paid for my first one) , which is 6,5 times cheaper than what they sell for now !

 

[Vintagestyle]

The 118 is 26" and is specified available in long size ( unlike all other ones ) , the 525 ( without belt but with laces instead ) , PER22 and 626 & 626VN are 26" , the 519 is 27".
PER70 is 26" as well , a great leather perfecto ( heavy weight cowhide ) with nice vintage style belt buckle ( it's a pitty it is only available with artificial wear and not as new ).

The P613S , heavyweight Horween Chromeexcel Steerhide is specified as 25" but it looks longer ( unfortunately it is not available with chrome belt buckel and nickel color buttons, only black ones it seems ) !
The leather is beautiful and extremely thick and heavy ( makes me think about the Aeroleather Horsehide perfecto which i prefer over the Schott HH but maybe even thicker ) ; the perfect leather to protect for motorcycle slide during an accident ( but no protection inside unlike nowdays motorcycle jackets ) .

 

[Carlos840]

The length of the back should be 25 " for both 618 and 613 .
If you check Schottnyc.com website ( not the Schott-onlinestore website or named as something like that ) and click on any original perfecto , you can see on the right " compare with similar styles " and if you click on it you will find all the perfecto style refs inline on the same page as a tab , that gives the specificity of each of them , including their standard back length .
It should be 25".
https://www.schottnyc.com/products/steerhide-perfecto.htm

That said, with Schott , as i noticed beeing a user since the mid 80's , there can be quite a lot of differences in the quality between two jackets of the same style / model and size, from the same production year ( or through the years ).
Those differences include leather quality , stitching quality , measurments and quality control ( as well as different hardware through the years ).
So , if you are really picky about the leather you like or not , you better choose your jacket in a shop !
Especialy knowing the prices !

In USA a 618 or 613 SH is 775 $ i believe and a B3 257S about 1300$ but in Europe , Schott sells them 1000 euros for the Perfecto 618/613 SH and 1750 euros for the B3 257S !!!
About 6 years ago those perfecto were sold about 800 euros and the B3 1500 euros !
At a shop retail store , a seller who works there since 2009 told me the B3 was sold about 900 euros back then !
A shop which used to sell the perfecto in Paris France ( not a Schott store ) , told me they were sold 1000 French Francs ( it is 150 euros ) in the early or mid 80's ( must have been more or less the price i paid for my first one) , which is 6,5 times cheaper than what they sell for now !

Those are the modern back lengths.
Original ones were 23.75", repros in the 90s and 2000s were 24" long.
(You can google it, there are many mentions on the Schott forum from Gail saying the back length is 24", there even is a sizing chart somewhere.)
At some point in the 2000s they switched to making the 618 25" but kept the 613 at 24"
Sometimes in the mid 2010s they added an extra inch and went 26".
Basically they have been consistently lengthening the jacket as time passes, people are taller and jeans are worn lower.
If you buy a used one it could be anything between 23.75" and 26" depending on the decade it was made. (the long sizes are 28" back)
That has nothing to do with QC, it's just how they were made.

Edit: here is the Schott sizing chart for the 613H in the mid 2000s.

 

[Monitor]

My 613H is from 2006, it is pretty heavily used i think (that kind of back grain doesn't happen fast on Schott HH!) but is still very very shiny:

It's a nice jacket, but the 23.75" back makes it pretty hard to wear.
The buckle is a Century Canada and it feels fine. I find the Lenzip sleeve zippers more disappointing than the buckle, they really feel cheap and nasty compared to anything else i have handled before.

There are more pictures of my Trojan, in this thread, also 2006 and also Schott HH:

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/legendary-products-inc-trojan-horse.96661/

To me Schott HH is definitely very shiny.
Not obnoxious shiny, but definitely up there, and IME the shine stays there even on broken in jackets.

Edit: I'll try taking better pics tomorrow when the light is better.

This is beautiful. Freaking beautiful.