San Francisco voters BAN HANDGUNS

[Veronica Parra]

Mister Art Fawcett! It's Marc Chevalier! Do you remember me? I missed you at the last Vintage Expo -- it was strange for me not to see you there. Folks have filled me in on your adventures and I wish you all the best. Too bad I can't be at the QM!

 

[nightandthecity]

That's absurd. I have a friend that lives there who would have to give up a LARGE firearms collection of rare collector weapons.

Hail socialisim!

Bastards.

Wingnut, what has socialism got to do with this exactly?

Socialism is the name for a group of political philosophies that share a belief in the social ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange. Are you seriously suggesting the city government of SF and 58% of its voters believe in this?

I am fairly familiar with the major Socialist writers. Many of them were greatly taken with the idea of an armed populace, and indeed with the idea of armed revolution. So inasmuch as they had an opinion on gun control it would seem they were against it.

I am aware that in your country this issue has elements of a liberal v conservative conflict, but I think you?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ll find American socialists tend to share many of the views of the militia movement on gun control (that it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s part of a creeping repression of civil liberties) while many explicitly see it as an attempt to disarm the urban poor.

Incidentally, here in the UK we have had a TOTAL ban on handgun ownership since 1997. The first stage (an outright ban on all weapons other than .22 target pistols) was introduced by a right-wing Conservative government in response to a hysterical scare campaign by the right-wing tabloid press. The second stage (banning even .22 weapons) was introduced by a right-wing Labour government in response to the continued hysterical scare campaign by said right-wing tabloid press. But in fairness, this was all very popular across the political spectrum and reflected a widespread and genuinely popular consensus in the UK in favour of strict gun controls. But not among Socialists. In fact the far left (and some on the far right) were about the only people to oppose the ban.

 

[Veronica Parra]

I would venture that most folks in the U.S. -- including those few who call themselves socialists -- don't understand what socialism, as a philosophical concept and practical form of government, is. Or perhaps I should say, socialisms. The word is often bandied about as a knee-jerk sound bite that's meant to provoke a reaction, not thought. The left wing does the same with the word capitalism, which to them is a dirty word. No surprise, then, that the kinder and gentler word free market is more often used in polite discourse.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Wow, do you think it will start a trend. Ins't unconstituional?

To paraphrase Mr Homer Simpson: we wouldn't want the king of England coming over and kicking our asses, would we?

Beware San Francisco, QE2 is on her way and i believe she's as drunk as her mother used to be. And she has diplomatic immunity!

Guns don't kill people, people kill people and all that jazz. But the guns sure do make it easier.

 

[Bebop]

To paraphrase Mr Homer Simpson: we wouldn't want the king of England coming over and kicking our asses, would we?

Beware San Francisco, QE2 is on her way and i believe she's as drunk as her mother used to be. And she has diplomatic immunity!

Guns don't kill people, people kill people and all that jazz. But the guns sure do make it easier.

There are millions of things that make killing people easier. Guns are a tool that is easy to misuse. That is why we have such strict gun laws already on the books.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

There are millions of things that make killing people easier.

But very few who's only function is to kill people (hand guns). The important word, of course, is PEOPLE. With their limited range and abysmal accuracy at distance in any but the most expert hands they are totally ineffective for any form of hunting except people hunting.

 

[green papaya]

hard to enforce

if a person bought a handgun 20 years ago, when you could still do a private sale without going through an FFL dealer, the city of SF would not know if you still owned the handgun, you could just say you sold it 20 years ago in a private party sale, they couldnt prove you still owned it, because private sales back then didnt require paper work.

 

[stbdtack]

Because of this kind if idiotic thinking I joined the NRA, even though I've never owned a gun. . .

 

[jamespowers]

There are millions of things that make killing people easier. Guns are a tool that is easy to misuse. That is why we have such strict gun laws already on the books.

According to the latest Statistical Abstract of the United States, the FBI figures do not really support that. Over the last ten years, guess what weapons killed more people than guns by a one hundred to one margin based on population. Anyone?
I'll give you a hint. They are not sold in stores.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Veronica Parra]

... guess what weapons killed more people than guns by a one hundred to one margin based on population. Anyone?
I'll give you a hint. They are not sold in stores.

Well, shoot! I was hoping I could buy one!

 

[jamespowers]

Well, shoot! I was hoping I could buy one!

Aw, come on guess what it is. A correct answer entitles one to a free drink on the QM this weekend. How's that for motivation?

Regards to all,

J

 

[Brad Bowers]

I think I know the answer you're getting at, but since I won't be at the QM, I'll let somebody else take a shot at it. However, while browsing the FBI's website, I found a statistical table that shows that for the last five years, about 50% of murders were committed with a handgun, so I'm wondering about that 100-to-1 margin you mentioned.

Brad

 

[jamespowers]

I think I know the answer you're getting at, but since I won't be at the QM, I'll let somebody else take a shot at it. However, while browsing the FBI's website, I found a statistical table that shows that for the last five years, about 50% of murders were committed with a handgun, so I'm wondering about that 100-to-1 margin you mentioned.

I think they might have included the suicide and accidental death figures in that table. I suppose murder is murder even if you kill yourself. [huh]

Regards to all,

J

P.S. You can PM me your answer and I might send up a well disguised bottle of Talisker if you are right.

 

[Art Fawcett]

Mycroft, other than Worth & Worth I can't recommend any hat shop in NYC. I have clients there but then, they come to me. go figure.

Gobler, in Oregon you are basically considered good unless proven otherwise. Here in Ca it's just the opposite. Unless you are a felon, in Oregon you must attend a class, pay a fee, and the local Sheriff is REQUIRED to give you a concealed weapons permit. There are restrictions of course, like hospitals, bars, etc..but the key is that they cannot arbitrarily deny you because of their personal political views. I can't quote you the comparative statistics as to crime but I CAN tell you that people are more respectful of each other there than has been my experience here.

MARK!!!!!!! So good to hear from you!!! Your time in Peru is done? I thought you were there forever with your lovely Lady. Welcome home.
Many changes since we have spoken, all for the good! Welcome to the Lounge!!

JP, I'll make my guess Sat night.

 

[Sefton]

Over the last ten years, guess what weapons killed more people than guns by a one hundred to one margin based on population. Anyone?
I'll give you a hint. They are not sold in stores.

Regards to all,

J

Is it an Armadillo?

 

[photobyalan]

Actually, cars kill far more people than guns in the United States each year. Yet just about anybody is allowed to drive, many even after they have proven that they are dangerous behind the wheel (by speeding, drunk driving, or other serious traffic offenses).

Something else the anti-gun lobby sweeps under the rug: The majority (~56%) of gun deaths are suicides. Yes, suicides. Take the suicides out of the statistics and cars kill 4 times as many people as guns. I'd also venture to say that people who use guns to attempt suicide are not "just crying out for help". Without guns, they'd find another way.

Gloria: "Did you know that guns cause 60% of all deaths in America?"
Archie Bunker: "Would it make you feel better, little goil, if they was pushed out of windows?"

 

[Bebop]

But very few who's only function is to kill people (hand guns). The important word, of course, is PEOPLE. With their limited range and abysmal accuracy at distance in any but the most expert hands they are totally ineffective for any form of hunting except people hunting.[/QUOTe


That is exactly why there are so many useful gunlaws already on the books. That is why not just anyone can buy a gun. More gun laws will not help lessen gun crimes they will only help to make the naive feel safe and the good guys not able to defend themselves against the bad guys who laugh at any law especially gun laws. I am an avid gun collector and shooter and I believe that hunting is a cruel, useless, horrible activity that is diguised as "sport" so guns and hunting animals don't mix for me. I believe guns are for self defense and target shooting not to kill animals minding their own business. Legalize adulthood.

 

[Andykev]

You missed my Caps

Why do you assume it was just Liberals? And why do you call liberals Idots? Seems there are a lot of idots on both sides if you want to label people.

I said, "Liberal Idots". Not all liberals, and not all idots. Just the Liberal Idots/

Did you notice the capitilization? I am not grouping or targeting the "left". I married a liberal, from Berkeley. Can't get much more liberal than that. I am also sometimes conservative, often liberal. But COMMON SENSE tells me that the Liberal Idot's on GUN CONTROL have their head either in the sand, or up their....


Edit. And let me further clarify MY feelings on this topic. The Alameda County Sheriff, Charlie Plummer, said this law was idotic, in that these types of "feel good" laws detract from the "real" efforts to enact reasonable gun control. Sheriff Plummer banned gun sales at the county fair grounds, and supported a ban on assault weapons. I AGREE WITH SHERIFF PLUMMER. No one needs an AK-47, unless you are those IDOTS who did the LA Bank of America shootout/robbery. And gun shows, any turd can buy anything, with NO checks. Felons, angry Postal Workers (ok that is a JOKE) and domestic nut case stalkers. You get the idea?

Generally, a CONSERVATIVE wants NO controls, a LIBERAL wants total ELIMINATION of guns. Well, this isn't a perfect world.

Do you think the Sureno's or the Norteno's, the Arian Brotherhood, the Crips, or the local DOPE DEALER is going to happily comply with the SF Surrender Your Gun Or Be Labeled A Criminal Law? Heck no!

THAT is why I want to have MY gun. If the BIG earthquake hits in the Bay Area, and we are on our own for DAYS or WEEKS, with NO cops or firemen...I think you may want to have a gun available to save yourself if need be.

 

[jamespowers]

Actually, cars kill far more people than guns in the United States each year. Yet just about anybody is allowed to drive, many even after they have proven that they are dangerous behind the wheel (by speeding, drunk driving, or other serious traffic offenses).

Something else the anti-gun lobby sweeps under the rug: The majority (~56%) of gun deaths are suicides. Yes, suicides. Take the suicides out of the statistics and cars kill 4 times as many people as guns. I'd also venture to say that people who use guns to attempt suicide are not "just crying out for help". Without guns, they'd find another way.

Gloria: "Did you know that guns cause 60% of all deaths in America?"
Archie Bunker: "Would it make you feel better, little goil, if they was pushed out of windows?"

Yes, cars do kill more people than guns but that is still not the number one answer. You can buy a car. Brad already got it but since just he, me and one other person know the answer I am going to let the guessing go on.
You are very right about the suicides as I mentioned above.
Actually I remember that All in the Family episode. I think you got the spelling of the last word wrong though. I think Archie pronouces "Winders."

Regards to all,

J

 

[Art Fawcett]

I agree with you Bebop on your hunting position. My personal code is to never shoot anything that isn't shooting at you!! There IS one exception though. The property I was able to buy in Oregon is in the mountains that is also home to predators. Mountain lion, cougar, bear, and coyote are there also. Most of those stay clear but only most. The Mountain lion have been known to stalk there so I have had to "strap on" whenever working alone both before the crew shows and after. I've become quite used to having a sidearm on as do most of the folks in the area. I have actually forgotten to take the gun out of the truck when coming down to my CA home which would make me a lawbreaker as soon as I crossed the border. Something feels wrong in that picture. An invisible line takes me from a sensible protector of my person and family to a lawbreaker worthy of jail. Just doesn't make alot of sense to me. More gun laws aren't going to do anything but make more criminals of good citizens while nothing changes for the bad guy. Enforcement of current laws would be a better approach along with common sense.