Safari Express rifle pic thread

[Renault]

Anyone heard of a rifle maker named L J Bull? Had a really nice express sighted custom rifle come in the shop several weeks ago. Older rifle, I bet it's pushing 45-50 y.o. Least as old as the ctg it's chambered in, .458 Win. Like it was built soon after the ctg became available. Built on a military 98 Mauser action that's naturally been scrubbed. Extremely nice piece. Fitted with an older style model 70 win style safety on the bolt shroud. Well my co-worker picked it up. We can't find nothing on this maker..... Top of bbl nicely marked "L. J. Bull Fecit"

Renault

 

[Oldsarge]

A custom rifle maker with a modest command of Latin? Singular. I would certainly be interested in anyone else's discoveries of the man's creations but I would bet a twenty that he was a very particular hobbiest . . . with talent!

 

[MikePotts]

OK you old Africa hands....

My late older cousin lived in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe for many years and when he saw me wearing this hat he referred to it as a ........and I can't remember

I know that it was a somewhat derogatory term relating to some mythical down & out P.H. or possibly a cartoon character....something like "Pietr Yooper ?" - any help?



MP

 

[J.D. Hunt]

Top of bbl nicely marked "L. J. Bull Fecit"

Renault

RS, as I am sure you know the signature simply means L.J. Bull did this. I could not find him on any of my gunsmith lists. J.D. Hunt

 

[Doublegun]

Save up your nickels and get a Kodiak Mk IV double rifle.

You can have fun in Cowboy Action Shooting with it in its original 45/70 caliber and later, when you're really serious, have it re-chambered to .450 NE by McKool's in Tulsa. Good uwindaji, bwana!

Sorry but I would NEVER even think about carrying a low quality Italian made hammer gun in 45/70 let alone one re-chambered to 450 Nitro anyplace where I might actually need that kind of stopping power. In fact, I would never recommend anyone carry any 11-lb double rifle anywhere or any time unless they had A LOT of time behind the trigger and had gone through A LOT of ammo (and that means thousands of $$ in ammo practicing). Let the PH carry the double and carry a well made bolt action built around a proven action (Win M70 or Mauser) that you are intimately familiar with.

Pederosoli makes guns for people who want to "play". They don't make guns you want to bet your life on. In fact, I doubt you would find a PH that would let a client actually take one of these guns afield.

 

[Renault]

A custom rifle maker with a modest command of Latin? Singular. I would certainly be interested in anyone else's discoveries of the man's creations but I would bet a twenty that he was a very particular hobbiest . . . with talent!

This chap was definitely a builder. This is rifle #16, also stamped with his stamp, LJB in a shield. On left of bbl next to calibre marking.
R

 

[Renault]

Pederosoli makes guns for people who want to "play". They don't make guns you want to bet your life on. In fact, I doubt you would find a PH that would let a client actually take one of these guns afield.

+1!!!!!!!!!!!
I have my doubts on just how long such a rifle would stay together having been rechambred to .450 NE..... JMHO

Renault

 

[Rathdown]

Sorry but I would NEVER even think about carrying a low quality Italian made hammer gun in 45/70 let alone one re-chambered to 450 Nitro anyplace where I might actually need that kind of stopping power. In fact, I would never recommend anyone carry any 11-lb double rifle anywhere or any time unless they had A LOT of time behind the trigger and had gone through A LOT of ammo (and that means thousands of $$ in ammo practicing). Let the PH carry the double and carry a well made bolt action built around a proven action (Win M70 or Mauser) that you are intimately familiar with.

Pederosoli makes guns for people who want to "play". They don't make guns you want to bet your life on. In fact, I doubt you would find a PH that would let a client actually take one of these guns afield.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I would like to know the rationale behind your statement.
Thanks--

 

[Doublegun]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I would like to know the rationale behind your statement.
Thanks--

I don't know how much you have hunted but the average deer rifle weights maybe 8-lbs loaded. Carry it all day and if get's very heavy. A double rifle is going to weight at least 11-lbs. It's not going to handle like anything else you have ever carried especially after hours of walking. Unless you have a lot of experience carring and handling that much gun you are asking for trouble. So how about getting experience? A entry level double rifle like a Merkle chambered in 470 is probably going to cost around $30k. (I know where you can pick up a nice used Holland and Holland for $150k). Then you need to feed it. Now, if you are going to take a rifle hunting game that will want to kill you you are going to want to make sure you can shoot your rifle instinctively and that means a lot of time at the range. Shooting close, shooting long, shooting moving targets, shooting charging targets. Ammo for a 470 is going to cost at least $5.00/round. That means a single box of ammo is going to be $100.00 and how many boxes are you going to shoot just getting proficient with your $30k gun? Oh, and if you haven't actually pulled the trigger on a 470 let me tell you, it isn't fun. Short term it will beat the crap out of you, long term it will make you flinch, something you can't do when shooting dangerous game up close.

Average guy is far better off shooting a well made bolt action rifle chambered in 375 and becoming very comfortable and very proficient than trying to go the double rifle route but that's just my opinion. Personally, I'd love to have a classic old double rifle in 470 but I would never use the rifle enough to be good with it and I'd rather be good with a rifle I know than look good carrying a gun I am not good with.

 

[Rathdown]

Thanks for the reply. I would agree with your last paragraph; I especially find shooting anything bigger than a .416 Rigby these days to be less than pleasant. I think we can both agree that hunting dangerous or exotic game is a rich man's hobby. That said, if one can afford the rifle, affording the ammo is probably a secondary consideration.

As to my own experience in the field, I did a fair bit of shooting when I was on the staff of GUNS & AMMO Magazine back in the mid-'70s. For a while, back in the early '90s, I owned a Heym double in .458 Win. Mag., but sold it after a few years when my planned for hunt in Zimbabwe fell thru. I can agree that 11 pounds of rifle is a whole bunch to lug all day long-- these days I won't even look at a shotgun if it tips the scales at anything over 6.5 pounds. Getting older is a real bitch...
Best Regards,
Scott Macmillan

 

[Oldsarge]

+1!!!!!!!!!!!
I have my doubts on just how long such a rifle would stay together having been rechambred to .450 NE..... JMHO

Renault

Hard as this may to believe, the 45/70 to .450 NE conversion is fairly common and quite popular. I would ask McKool's Gunsmithing about durability but they are a very professional lot and if it was a bad idea, they wouldn't do it. And many Pedersoli falling blocks go to Africa and do very nicely. Despite their relatively low cost, they are not toys. Just be cause they aren't made in London . . . :wink:

 

[Oldsarge]

The proposal that the most the average shooter can handle comfortably and accurately is a .375 is spot on. Having gotten used to the larger beasts, I find it a positive joy to shot. Heck, I can run out a magazine wearing nothing but a T-shirt and dungarees . . . but I sure don't do it off the bench! That's the real problem with large bores. Guys have this really silly idea that the kind of groups they need for ground squirrels in the next time zone are what they need on something unfriendly at 25 yards and closing rapidly. This is not so. The heart on a Cape buffalo is the size of a man's head. If you can keep your shots into Minute of Head at under a hundred yards (shooting dangerous game at 200+ yards isn't dangerous), that's plenty accurate enough. Once the monster of your choice is sighted in, never shoot from the bench again. Make yourself a set of shooting sticks and shoot from your hind legs like a man. It makes the recoil of my .404 Jeffrey and my .450 Rigby Rimless a whole lot more bearable. And when you're in the swamp and some black bull is looking at you like you owe him money, believe me, you won't feel a thing. :grin: Been there, done that, almost got killed in the process. I want to do it again . . .

 

[Renault]

Hard as this may to believe, the 45/70 to .450 NE conversion is fairly common and quite popular. I would ask McKool's Gunsmithing about durability but they are a very professional lot and if it was a bad idea, they wouldn't do it. And many Pedersoli falling blocks go to Africa and do very nicely. Despite their relatively low cost, they are not toys. Just be cause they aren't made in London . . . :wink:

Never doubted that there are many 45/70's being converted to .450 NE. And as far as "play" safari, cowboy action shooting and stalking game here in the states this rifle would probably be the "bee's knees".... I just would not own one, as I never cared for the 45/70 (owned several). Nothing wrong with the ctg, just never did anything for me.

My concern was that in the past this firm's metallurgy (IMHO) left a bit to be desired. Tumbler, sear, and mainspring life were always a bit problematic on their other firearms. Fitting left a lot to be desired as well. I can only speculate on the life of the breech and locking bars. It is what it is! Past experience with cowboy action shooters is they tend to be a bit rough on their equipment. Not saying that to mean anything in a bad way. But going on the amount of these firearms we work in each week here. They get used, and they tend to eat up parts!

I certainly agree 100% on the comments regarding the .375 H&H!!!! It, as well as my 9.3 x 62 would be my go to rifles for the dark continent, with the .375 taking preference, hands down....

Renault

 

[Doublegun]

I think we can both agree that hunting dangerous or exotic game is a rich man's hobby.

No question and it's not limited to Africa. I have seen 7-species plains game hunts in Africa offered by reputable outfitters at rates well below the cost of a trophy elk hunt in one of the prime areas here in the US. And a hunt for big Griz or Kodiak's is well out of reach for all but the very well off. If I could take one trip for dangerous game I would hunt for a big Kodiak but I could never justify spending $15k for anything so frivilous.

 

[Oldsarge]

You are correct in that a hunt in Africa can be less expensive than either a Grizzly or Dall sheep hunt in Alaska. And while the license alone for elephant is in the neighborhood of $10K with the safari running $21K on top of that, Cape buffalo hunts are not beyond the reach of a working man who budgets for one. And if the buffalo being hunted are not disturbed, the .375 will take one quite handily. It's a wonderful cartridge.

 

[Renault]

I'm just extremely thankful I have an aunt with big ranch in Colorado full of elk!!!!!! But back to the thread at hand! I wanna see pics of cool rifles!!!!!!!

What have I not posted???????? Have to look!

Renault

 

[Oldsarge]

I'll see what I can do tomorrow. However, my Big Killer is boxed up to go to AHR for a new stock so who knows when it will show up.

 

[jkingrph]

While more of a big plinker than safari rifle, here's my CZ 550 Safari American in 375H&H. I picked it up at Gander Mountain about three years ago when they had one of those specials, so much off on a gun over a certain price. They also had a 416 Rigby and a 458Lott. The 416 would have been fun but the darned brass and bullets are so expensive. The 375 also had exceptional wood, which was a big plus for me.

http://

 

[Renault]

Very nice rifle!!!!!!

RS

 

[Oldsarge]

A plinker? Hardly, sir. The ultimate cartridge, the entry level dangerous game rifle. And CZ is a reliable and time-honored maker. You have a good eye.