Rules of sizing and A-2 ?

[Levallois]

I did a search but didn't find much. I'm a size 44 - been measured by a tailor as such. I'm looking for an A-2. If you look on ebay for a "size 44" A-2 there are jackets that appear to measure from 44 to 50! in the chest. I've always thought that a 44 jacket should be about 46-48 in the chest so that you can layer a bit if need be but not balloon out. Is this true for an A-2 or are the rules different? Thanks!

L.

 

[Doctor Damage]

Been looking at this myself and it's clear the major A-2 makers are bound and determined to size their jackets irrationally and without any reference to reality. There are no "rules" nor consistency, and to their shame they seem unembarrassed by it. For example, I can walk into a Brooks Brothers store and buy a suit or overcoat in 42L and nine times of ten it will fit fine. However, having gotten measurements from Gibson & Barnes and Cockpit, two of the better off-the-rack A-2 makers, I know that I need a 38R or 38L from G&B and a 40R from Cockpit. That's ridiculous.

 

[Edward]

The idealised "correct" A2 fit of the WW2 period is a myth. There are plenty of photos on here (a whole thread, somewhere) which explodes the notion that there was one standardised look to them back in the day. Different manufacturers definitely cut them differently. Photos show them being worn by US flightcrews in any which way from tight (though never the sort of skintight look the Luftwaffe boys so often seem to have favoured) to pretty baggy. It's certainly true that modern manufacturers of repros vary them significantly - no different than any clothes, really. It's not that unusual to need a different size even withon one manufacturer's range, depending on the combination of cut and bodyshape. A2 repro places which are aiming for the higher volume sales and build to stock 'house' models do seem to tend to cut them somewhat looser. Or maybe it's less a looser cut, more that they size them according to what will give the desired baggier fit for many (similarly to how Aero and ELC would size a jacket as a modern 42 that back in the day would have been a 44. Another reason to do this would be to avoid confusion - women's sizings are more complex, but the well known Vivienne of Holloway business has long become infamous for sticking to vintage sizings, which is why you can find so many second-hand unworn items on eBay, all listed as 'I ordered my own size, but they use vintage sizing so it doesn't fit...'). No doubt this caters to both a youth market wanting baggier styles, and the changing body shape of older enthusiasts. The trick, imo, is not to care what the label says, but (where the opportunity exists) to try on the jackets and wear what you feel fits best.

Personally, I'd never buy an A2 with layering in mind. They're not really a warm jacket at all (the cotton lining is no thicker than a dress shirt, and leather isn't really all that good for keeping much heat in), and were intended to be worn over just a shirt and tie. For something to layer a jumper under for colder weather, I'd be much more inclined to something like a B15, B10, B3 et cetera. Beyond that, it's personal preference as to how baggy or tight fitting the individual is after.

 

[Foster]

The actual measurement should always be larger than the size of the wearer. A few added inches of ease (as it is called in patterning) is necessary. So a jacket for a size 44 wearer should measure 48 to 50" in actuality.
If the jacket was the same size as the wearer it would be too tight, and uncomfortable.

 

[Doctor Damage]

Look, I understand all that, but I should be able to buy a 42L and get a reasonable fitting 42L. It's not rocket science. As I said, I can walk into a Brooks Brothers and get a good fit without any effort. If these leather jacket companies sold their products for $50 and it was made by indentured aliens with 12 arms working on the moon and who communicate using flashing colours and hand signals, then I might forgive them some sizing quirks. But surely to goodness a company with a reputation like G&B has some notion of what a 42L should be and not have it fit like a 46XXL. And what also irks me is that many of these companies say "order your regular size" with a look of innocence on their faces when they MUST know that their stuff fits big.

Or maybe I simply have no patience and part of the thrill of leather flying jackets is burning hundreds of dollars on either (1) shipping back and forth, or (2) traveling to their factory store.

 

[MightyEighth]

No the rules are the same for any jacket within reason.

Buy two inches bigger (in actual pit-to-pit of garment) than your chest measurement = properly fitting item. More than two inches is fine, but then it will start going in a more blousy direction, and rather than being more comfortable, can obstruct upper arm movement.

Some companies I have seen label their jackets 42 if it measures 21" pit to pit, which does get confusing, but as long as you know the measurement of the garment, not a problem. I believe certain fashion houses do this for a deliberate slim fit.

 

[andyfalzon]

Obviously the jacket should be larger than your body otherwise it won't fit. You are not buying a latex catsuit.
The A-2 should provide 2-3 inches room in your chest. From 4 and above it will get blousing.
In that sense a size 42 should measure either 22" pit to pit or 22.5"
i.e. 22+22 = 44 minus your chest 42 leaves 2" difference or
22.5+22.5 = 45 minus your chest 42, a 3" difference.

Hope this helps

 

[MightyEighth]

Ah, Andyfalzon . I have emailed you.

After a quote for a Kelso 29971 in Russet

Prob size 38 jacket, with the waist tapered an inch each side as I'm only a 30" waist (basically, I want your 38 jacket top half, but 36 jacket bottom half), but here are the dimensions I want the jacket to be:

20" pit to pit

Sleeves 24.5" (inc knit)

Back length 24"

Olive thread.

Would also like a collar stand please, and may be interested in upgrading to the Talon zip if its not silly money to do so?

I'm basically ready to press the button, but what's the soonest I can expect to receive it in the UK? I'm filming from the 1st of April, and will need it by then. I will make sure the wardrobe/costumiers see it

So can you check your work email and let me know the info? Many thanks.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Look, I understand all that, but I should be able to buy a 42L and get a reasonable fitting 42L. It's not rocket science. As I said, I can walk into a Brooks Brothers and get a good fit without any effort. If these leather jacket companies sold their products for $50 and it was made by indentured aliens with 12 arms working on the moon and who communicate using flashing colours and hand signals, then I might forgive them some sizing quirks. But surely to goodness a company with a reputation like G&B has some notion of what a 42L should be and not have it fit like a 46XXL. And what also irks me is that many of these companies say "order your regular size" with a look of innocence on their faces when they MUST know that their stuff fits big.

Or maybe I simply have no patience and part of the thrill of leather flying jackets is burning hundreds of dollars on either (1) shipping back and forth, or (2) traveling to their factory store.

I don't know Doc, my G&B 42 L fits like most 42 L jackets I have tried. Maybe a little bit roomier, but not notably so. A 24 inch pit to pit. 19 inch shoulders. 42 is pretty meaningless anyway. I have had size 42 in several leather jacket makes and pit to pit can vary by up to 3.5 inches. These days I never buy size I always buy specific measurements. Makes it easy.

 

[Doctor Damage]

^ G&B quoted me a 26" chest for their standard A2 model in size 42, while Cockpit said 25" for size 42. I received today in the mail a Cockpit jacket, which I expected to be a bit large, but it's fine and has a 23" chest, which obviously doesn't match their official measurements.

 

[AustinTX]

Obviously the jacket should be larger than your body otherwise it won't fit. You are not buying a latex catsuit.
The A-2 should provide 2-3 inches room in your chest. From 4 and above it will get blousing.
In that sense a size 42 should measure either 22" pit to pit or 22.5"
i.e. 22+22 = 44 minus your chest 42 leaves 2" difference or
22.5+22.5 = 45 minus your chest 42, a 3" difference.

Hope this helps

Latex catsuit? Hmmmm....definitely a thread starter.

 

[atomjet58]

Is there any standard for the difference between sizes? If so you would only need an accurate measurement for one
size and then could calculate how much bigger or smaller to go.
It would help if all photos on manufacturer websites had horizontal and vertical tape measures included
so you could get some idea of what would be a workable size. Or better yet a grid of one inch squares with the jacket spread out on it.
Since this size issue is responsible for causing lots of potential buyers to hold back on ordering any visual aids would be
worthwhile and not that difficult to provide.
Showing a model in a known standard shirt size wearing the jacket would also help in determining what would fit you.

 

[kasa7]

I have a 42" chest (5' 9'' 168 lb) and I bought a 42R HH from US Authentic which have 24" pit-to-pit, and 20" shoulder-to-shoulder, but I believe the 40R would be better for me.

 

[thor]

I have a 42" chest (5' 9'' 168 lb) and I bought a 42R HH from US Authentic which have 24" pit-to-pit, and 20" shoulder-to-shoulder, but I believe the 40R would be better for me. View attachment 11454

Careful with the US Authentic zipper; with a snug fit and that thick horsehide, the lightweight Talon repro zip that they use might malfunction (I had a nice trim fitting US A HH A-2 but the zipper puller popped off it's track after 3 months of normal wear).

 

[Doctor Strange]

I never had a problem with the zipper on my US A, which I had for 8 or 9 years, even after the waist/gut got quite tight... which was why I sold it to help fund my custom-sized Good Wear.

My only real complaint with it (apart from the trim-but-long sizing, which was never really right for my short/chunky frame) was the seal horsehide - it had a very heavy surface coat that never wore off, not even at the stress points. So apart from the panels on it that wrinkled in quickly (some never changed it all), it never developed much of a worn-in look, even after years of being out in snow and rain. (That said, I still think US A is the best buy if you want a modestly priced, generic WWII A-2 repro. There are many good points to their jackets.)

And just to chime in: there are NO rules of sizing across A-2 repros. Every manufacturer is different. (I've had G&B, US A, US Wings, GW.) It's definitely one of the challenges of this crazy hobby!

 

[kasa7]

Thank you, I'll be careful with the zipper