RRP vs. price war for new or nearly new qualitative garments on the market

[58panheadfan]

A recent reply to a post in another thread gave me the idea to open a new thread. I would like to hear your experience you made or noticed with the sale of quality items of clothing offered as "new" or "tried on only" or "worn once" on any platform.

To begin with: In the last few years I have sold a lot of garments as described above, e.g. leather jackets, jeans, shirts and more. On average, sale price fetched between 40-60% of the RRP, sometimes less but very rarely more.

I also notice ebay is dead! I recently sold some items there and some of them had +1000 visitors and >50 watchers. In the end, maybe two buyers bid on it even though I had set the starting price at 20-30% of the RRP. It seems that a lot of people just watch but don't buy anything If I offer my clothes for sale locally in a shop, 50% of the sales price is charged as a commission, which is not a big deal too.

I'm only talking about high end reproductions from well known manufactures (for Jackets e.g. Aero, Eastman, FL, FW & more Japanese, Himel etc.).

With originals, fashion labels or cheap items it's a different story... no need to discusses here.

I am looking forward to hear your own experience...

Edit: As always and easy to read, english isn't my first language but I hope to come over.

 

[handymike]

I am always on the hunt for a good deal on the items I like. Very seldom will I pay full price for an article of clothing. I tend to wait for a sale, shop at a discount store, or buy used. When I turn to sell, I never lose much so for me, the closet can rotate as needed. The only items I’m really stuck with are those I bought as pattern pieces for my “dream” of making jackets one day.

 

[Guppy]

The state of the economy might have something to do with it.

 

[willyto]

Great idea for a thread.

I'm only talking about high end reproductions from well known manufactures (for Jackets e.g. Aero, Eastman, FL, FW & more Japanese, Himel etc.).

I think we tend to overlook how niche these brands really are. They actually are not known by anyone who isn't into leather jackets, vintage style stuff, denim, workwear items, etc.

Not even people who are into vintage know these brands with the exception of maybe a couple of them.

I keep discovering brands in Japan that we don't even talk around here and they're incredible and make desings that are amazing.

When you're buying something new in clothes the value goes down the moment you wear it. Most people don't like second hand clothes and if they do they want to feel like they're buying a good deal. The problem here is that the brands we talk about here are expensive to the regular customer but even to us they are not cheap, when you buy something new that is expensive you have to be aware that you are never going to get your money back and some people don't want to accept that.

If I buy a jacket for $2500, no one is going to buy it used from me for $2000 and maybe not even $1500. It will depend on how badly the audience wants. You're always going to take a loss on any premium maker that you want to sell second hand except maybe on the more demanded brands but even with those (Mister Freedom Campus, any Freewheelers jackets, Himel, Good Wear, Eastman...) people aren't going to pay close to full price. You can buy Freewheelers from japan for around 1000€ or even under that, some very rare jackets are offered for 1500-2000€ but even those sit there for months and new they're close to 2000-2600 depending on the model.

When people are looking for second hand premium brands it usually is because we can't afford new or don't want to pay new. The closer to the RRPP price the second hand item gets the less likely anyone is to buy it used.

For example I bought my Himel Grizzly sample for around $800(700€) and I had to pay shipping and had to pay taxes and custom duties. all in all close to 1000€ and I'm never going to get my money back if I sell it(I'm thinking about it). In fact I doubt that I would get my original purchase money back. I would have to put it at a friendly price so people get interested in it and buy it, specially because it has been used, it's not perfect, has some issues,etc.

That is going to happen with every jacket I want to sell. I've bought two Eastman 3/4 lenght leather coats for under 400€ each when new they are +1400€. They were sitting there for a lot of time and people didn't bid nor purchase. Second hand market for premium brands isn't that good I'm afraid. If I wanted to resell them I could ask more and maybe to the right audience I could get my money back but I doubt it somehow that anywant would want to pay 600-700€ for any of them, specially because one has a stitching issue in the shoulder.

I see a lot of people trying to sell repro from Japan asking insane prices and they're never selling them...there's a reason. People can't accept that they aren't going to get their money back.

The current market is affected by the pandemic but even before Covid the situation was almost the same. The thing is that right now a lot of people are seeing these items of clothing in their closets and thinking, oh right I will get my 300€ back from this pair of denim, I will get 800€ back from this wool half belt from Japan and 1500€ from this leather jacket ....erm no, it doesn't work like that. Our clothes aren't economical investments, specially now that people now they can wait and press further for a better price.

I regularly buy stuff from Haversack, Heller's Cafe, Warehouse, etc for peanuts. Even as low as 30-40€ which then with shipping and taxes/duties turns into +120€ usually...but you know the point is that that stuff sold for double or even triple of what I pay for after all the expenses!

 

[handymike]

This is right on the money!
I feel used Aero jackets are worth $400-$600...yet I see a lot of people trying to get more. I personally don’t care if it’s been worn once or for 2 years. As long as it’s in good shape, it’s the same to me. A used Himel might be worth $600-$700. There was a time that you couldn’t find them under $1000, but that was a few years back when they were scarcer. Goodwear seems to re-sell around $900 which is pretty good value. The vintage ones seem to go all over the place, but my comfort zone is below $450.

 

[Edward]

I still keep an eye on eBay, but they seem to have driven away a lot of sellers. Sometimes people have unrealistic ideas of value, equally it seems that all too often people buying on eBay expect to be able to buy anything for buttons. Specialist sites are probably the way forward.

The thing with eBay is it's all about the search facility. If you have a brand that people will search for, you'll get more eyeballs than something people won't or don't know. (Hence why I was able to buy a Grenfell trenchcoat far superior to my Burberry one for half the price.) I think though a lot of people are just tightening the purse strings at present, with covid and other factors, especially here in the UK, making the future uncertain and a lot of jobs insecure.

Another factor is, of course, that outside of the hardcore enthusiasts, the 'vintage style' trend has moved on, and so there isn't the 'casual' market for this sort of thing that there once was.

 

[handymike]

Also, since the last year has been mostly “stay at home” the interest in new clothes has faded. My exception is that I’ve recently gone on a splurge of $12 Reyn Spooner aloha shirts.

 

[Marc mndt]

The current market is affected by the pandemic but even before Covid the situation was almost the same.

In what way do you think the market is affected by Covid?

For me personally, I think Covid made me buy more jackets than ever. I'm bored because I can't go out and do the things I used to do. Instead I'm at home sitting on the couch, searching through every online marketplace I can think of on the hunt for nice jackets.

 

[willyto]

In what way do you think the market is affected by Covid?

For me personally, I think Covid made me buy more jackets than ever. I'm bored because I can't go out and do the things I used to do. Instead I'm at home sitting on the couch, searching through every online marketplace I can think of on the hunt for nice jackets.

You're assuming here that everyone is in your same situation, unfortunately not everyone is able to do so because of the economical effect caused by the pandemic.

I know of a lot of people who are out of a job, they had to close their business, fire employees and they're lucky if their partners are able to keep their job so they have an income. Otherwise is hoping one can get any help from the government. Even people which were in a very safe economical situation have gone to being able to spend the money on premium stuff to having to sell their stuff to get food in the table.

Last thing people are thinking about is spending money on clothes which makes the second hand market basically stop moving for the most part.

Also the fact that we go out less and less means that less clothes are required, so people are really watching what they're buying. I think most people are starting to realise that we in general are all hoarding too many clothes and that we don't need them. This will also affect the fashion business, I'm sure of that.

Covid is being tough on a lot of people and that is affecting the spending habits of everyone.

 

[58panheadfan]

I think that the current covid situation causes uncertainty in many people. Be it losing the job or getting by on less income. Nevertheless, I noticed this trend not only in the last year, but also before. +10 years ago, clothing from Japan were an even bigger niche product than they are now. Back then it was really difficult to get something. Buyee or other platforms did not exist and rakuten ichiba was entirely in japanese. It was similar with ebay; in the past, one or the other bargain was still possible. Although this forum offers a good platform and people here are also interested in our niche products, most of us already have a considerable number of beautiful clothes and therefore weigh up whether a new purchase is really necessary.

 

[Edward]

It seems to have hit tailoring hard especially; I know I've not bought anything from Charles Tyrwhitt this year (I usually buy at least a couple of office shirts from them every year). A lot of folks are still buying but cutting back on the spend - interestingly, my local Sainsburys have expanded much more into clothes you could wear in the office whereas in the past it was primarily casual fashion wear. If they're attracting that market at the budget end, it's being lost elsewhere.

 

[jeo]

My experience is that it's worth it to go used/gently worn/worn once over buying new. And not only for leather jackets, but other types of clothing as well. Maybe denim would be the only kind of clothing I would want to buy new.

Some brands hold their value more than others, but really you're taking a hit if you buy new and decide to sell.

I used to like the idea of buying a brand new leather jacket. My reasoning was that I'm going to be the one breaking it in, setting the arm creases and all that good stuff. That's not the case for me anymore for two main reasons.

First reason is the what this post is about...cost of new vs. used. Although when I buy, I tend to buy in the hopes of keeping it for a long time, if not forever so I don't really think about resale value.

Second reason ties into the first reason, that most second hand leather jackets can be had for a steal and many times, although worn, are not broken in at all. Yes there might be some sleeve creases, but you will be buying your size so the creases should line up with your own arms and you will just continue those same creases. But if the main front and back body is not super creased and the liner is not worn out, as far as I'm concerned, to me those kind of jackets are pretty much brand new. And you can find them all the time for much less than when new.

Because of that, for me personally I prefer buying used/gently worn. But I still understand the appeal of buying new.

Although I can think of at least one brand that may make sense for some people to buy new and that is Fine Creek. That is because they wear and fade pretty quickly so I can see how some people might equate that to the raw denim experience and would only want to buy a new one so they can take it from new to worn themselves. I think I would be ok with buying a used Fine Creek so long that it isn't super worn.

 

[handymike]

Here in the US, many dept. stores are opening “slightly used” sections and businesses hoping to make up for their losses over sitting inventory. Thing is that their margins were crazy- the fact that Macy’s can sell an item for $25 that was originally $200 just shows the mark ups.

 

[Marc mndt]

You're assuming here that everyone is in your same situation, unfortunately not everyone is able to do so because of the economical effect caused by the pandemic.

I know of a lot of people who are out of a job, they had to close their business, fire employees and they're lucky if their partners are able to keep their job so they have an income. Otherwise is hoping one can get any help from the government. Even people which were in a very safe economical situation have gone to being able to spend the money on premium stuff to having to sell their stuff to get food in the table.

Last thing people are thinking about is spending money on clothes which makes the second hand market basically stop moving for the most part.

Also the fact that we go out less and less means that less clothes are required, so people are really watching what they're buying. I think most people are starting to realise that we in general are all hoarding too many clothes and that we don't need them. This will also affect the fashion business, I'm sure of that.

Covid is being tough on a lot of people and that is affecting the spending habits of everyone.

Oh I was not assuming anything. I know not everyone is in my situation and I feel bad for everyone who is affected in one way of the other. I was just sharing my personal experience.

I've been buying and selling second hand clothing for years and I haven't noticed any change in the market to be honest. That's why I asked.

 

[TheBigEraser]

In my opinion, COVID didn't really hit the market of the relatively high-end leather jacket. People who were able and willing to spend so much money on one jacket are less likely to be affected by the financial impact from COVID (lose of job, etc.). Again this is my understanding and what I observed in my leather jacket fellows.

 

[Edward]

Here in the US, many dept. stores are opening “slightly used” sections and businesses hoping to make up for their losses over sitting inventory. Thing is that their margins were crazy- the fact that Macy’s can sell an item for $25 that was originally $200 just shows the mark ups.

Part of a wider green trend, I think. IKEA here in the UK have started accepting used Ikea products are trade ins, selling what is still good and recycling other bits. Makes sense; not everyone is comfortable with fast fashion, and this is a chance to cash-in in a way that is positive all round.

 

[ton312]

eBay is also assigning locally applied sales tax. It’s pushed me away from the platform as a buyer. In Cook county Illinois that’s an additional 10%. So even a “good deal” on a gently pre-loved item can quickly become not such a good deal real quick.
I also think (particularly with jackets) as you as you open the box, you’re down 50% of the purchase price. Drive that sucker off the lot....

 

[ton312]

One other think I’ve noticed. The only jackets that ever really sell for a profit (or break even) in my experience have been used. I bought an old Bates for $80, sold for $350. Gray Vanson $200, sold for $500. Both times at auction, with international bidders. Bates went to Japan and the Vanson to Germany.

 

[Marc mndt]

I prefer buying second hand clothing. I buy second hand jackets, shirts, sweaters hats chinos and what have you. What I don't buy are worn shoes, because shoes mould to the wearers foot.

I buy second hand because I really enjoy the hunt but also because of sustainability.

I only buy new what I can't get second hand. A custom Thedi or FL for example. Buying a FL jacket is about much more than just the end product. Working together with the maker to create something of your own vision is a unique experience.

 

[Imuricecreamman]

Thinking about what I'd lose on selling the jackets I bought new could keep me up at night, but the low prices and the hassle will stop me from ever bothering. Using ebay as a selling platform these days seem almost fraudulent to me. The last two times buying from ebay have made 100 pound BIN end up costing close to or above 200 pounds (no blame on the sellers, but on ebay.)