Round/Medium/Long oval patent date, who can give me info?

[Atterbury Dodd]

Hey All!

I remember some time ago, one of the members here, had done some research on the date of the patent for the modern system for classifying and blocking hats for three different head shapes... could somebody kindly point me to info pertaining to these patents? I have searched the forum but all in vain. I seem to remember the patent for the Round/Medium/long oval system to be dated somewhere in the 1870's-1880's era and was trying to pinpoint the date and any other info related to the patent.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Not something I ever remember reading on the Lounge. To my knowledge, this was never patented, and I'm not sure a basic shape is something that could qualify for a design patent. I searhed for hat block patents and failed to turn up anything relevant. Crofut & Knapp claim to have come up with the idea first, but I've also read a piece from Stetson where they claim being first.

Brad
~The Hatted Professor

 

[TheDane]

I totally agree with Brad on this. You may think of the "ovals-list", quoted many places on TFL. The first occurrence I have been able to find is: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/is-long-oval-a-different-circumference.9712/#post-361474

Hope, that's what you were looking for

 

[mayserwegener]

Side note:

I can't remember if Borsalino used Long Oval blocks at some point. I haven't come across any German or Austrian examples. I have come across 1/4 Point sizes (for example 6 3/4 Point = 60.5cm) which didn't appear to survive past WWII.

 

[Atterbury Dodd]

Not something I ever remember reading on the Lounge. To my knowledge, this was never patented, and I'm not sure a basic shape is something that could qualify for a design patent. I searhed for hat block patents and failed to turn up anything relevant. Crofut & Knapp claim to have come up with the idea first, but I've also read a piece from Stetson where they claim being first.

Brad
~The Hatted Professor

Brad, that makes sense. I didn't think of that. It would be hard to patent something so basic. I believe there was some historic information on the development of the round/medium/long oval system though. If I remember correctly hats from the colonel era were blocked in the round, and hats gradually developed a more oval shape. I'm trying to see if I can find historic info on who developed the three oval system for fitting different head shapes.

 

[Brad Bowers]

While the various basic head shapes have been known since at least the nineteenth century, I don't think anything was done with that knowledge with regards to making hats until 1933. This excerpt from a 1924 Crofut & Knapp publication discusses an aspect of the oval, with the other option being a "set round," and not the regular, wide, and long ovals that we know.

The first advertising references I can find to long, regular, and wide ovals come from Knox ads in 1933. Knox, and to some extent, Dobbs, started heavily promoting these three ovals from the fall of 1933 into Spring 1934, both for men's and women's hats. This was Knox's famed "Ovalized Sixteenths." Credit is given to John Cavanagh for creating the idea of blocking hats to the three different ovals, and the date of the Knox ad campaign gives some support for this, datewise. By December 1933 the oval shapes are also being mentioned in ads that list Stetson and Borsalino, as well.

If anyone comes up with anything definitive for an earlier date, please let us know.

Brad
~The Hatted Professor

 

[Atterbury Dodd]

Brad, I believe my reprint sears catalog of 1901 already had the three oval system in it. I'll have to see if I can dig it out.