Rifle Firing Position

[Feraud]

Okay, is this a bona fide firing position still taught or what? Span-Am War period, but you'd expect that from me.

dean

A great picture!
I have seen this position referenced in quite a few 19th Century shooting competitions. I doubt it is still taught unless you are shooting black powder cartridge rifle shooting!

 

[Mojave Jack]

Isn't also true that the Marine Corps trains their men so that each one is a marksman?

Dean, you're absolutely right. Every Marine is a rifleman first. All Marines, regardless of billet, are required to requalify every year on the rifle, and for those whose TO weapon is a sidearm have to requalify on that, as well. I think we were issued our rifles on the fourth day of boot camp, and turned them in two days before graduation. We literally took them every where we went.

 

[deanglen]

Dean, you're absolutely right. Every Marine is a rifleman first. All Marines, regardless of billet, are required to requalify every year on the rifle, and for those whose TO weapon is a sidearm have to requalify on that, as well. I think we were issued our rifles on the fourth day of boot camp, and turned them in two days before graduation. We literally took them every where we went.

Glad to hear it!:eusa_clap That's why they say :'Send in the Marines' Any opinion on that shooting position in the picture above? All I can think of is "Why?".

dean

 

[carebear]

Glad to hear it!:eusa_clap That's why they say :'Send in the Marines' Any opinion on that shooting position in the picture above? All I can think of is "Why?".

dean

Stability. The goal behind any shooting position is stability. The idea is to provide such a perfect platform for the gun as to leave only the weapon's own inherent acccuracy as the random factor in where the rounds go.

I've never seen that position used in a modern match and it's not formally taught anywhere that I've been. If I'm going to lie on the ground I don't want the rifle resting on top of my heart-beating, lung-breathing body. I'd rest it on a branch or my rolled up coat or almost any other inanimate, fixed object and fire from a standard prone. No matter where you are there's always a rest, if one is available it is almost always the most accurate way to fire.

There were a lot of odd things tried in the old days and some of them might work for some individuals but I wouldn't recommend that one. He is cricking his neck up to see the sights, that will affect his follow through, and he's pulling the trigger catty-wampus with his thumb which I can't imagine is a superior way to do it. If I was in a place where that was the only position I could assume, I'd move before shooting that way.

I have seen a similar position used with pistols for long-range field shooting, but in that you're basically using your leg for a rest.

 

[deanglen]

If I was in a place where that was the only position I could assume, I'd move before shooting that way.

Who wouldn't? That guy. I guess. [huh]

dean

 

[mikepara]

Mike:
Did the regulation five jumps with a nite drop, or just the
proverbial jump-for-the-helluvit?
Wish I had run the SAS selection or gone to Aldershot for
a few weeks.

Harp, did the whole 9 yards jumped 12 times in total on that tour not a single Hollywood jump and all but one at night. Mind wouldn't have expected anything else it was @/with JFK Special Warfare School!

Had a hard time Jump wise from the Aussies, French and the Canadians too. The only Jollies were with the Belgians 1 jump and the Polish 24th Airmobile 2 jumps and back for tea and medals!

Run Selection! for fun? hahaha bloody madman.

 

[mikepara]

Begging for Saint Mick

fftopic: On the 29th September I was thinking of St. michael. As it is Michaelmas day [The Patron Saint of Paratroopers] and my wedding anniversary, Any loungers at/near Ft Bragg? I lost my St Michael Association pendant. The padre gives them away at the base church anyone got a spare?

 

[Harp]

St Michael

fftopic: On the 29th September I was thinking of St. michael. As it is Michaelmas day [The Patron Saint of Paratroopers] and my wedding anniversary, Any loungers at/near Ft Bragg? I lost my St Michael Association pendant. The padre gives them away at the base church anyone got a spare?

I'll call 5th SF at Ft Campbell tomorrow. Need a minature US jump wings
for lapel wear?

 

[mikepara]

Sorted

Harp, Thanks for help & PM link. Sorted. mike

 

[Mojave Jack]

There were a lot of odd things tried in the old days and some of them might work for some individuals but I wouldn't recommend that one. He is cricking his neck up to see the sights, that will affect his follow through, and he's pulling the trigger catty-wampus with his thumb which I can't imagine is a superior way to do it.

Not to mention when he does fire, the recoil will likely break his thumb, his nose, or just hurt like blazes. I'll never forget the first "idiot mark" I got when I held a 12-ga. riot shotgun up too high. I had a fat lip to show for it! lol

Mybe that guy is playing a game of "horse" but with a rifle! Fire from the oddest position you can and still hit the black. Loser buys the beer!

 

[carebear]

They were better men than we, back in the day.

Chins of steel and what not....

 

[deanglen]

They were better men than we, back in the day.

Chins of steel and what not....

Yes. They were.

dean

 

[mikepara]

Nah!

Better men way back? I know it was partially said tongue in cheek. Not to take away any glory of our forebears but... Not better men.

Hardier maybe. Death and discomfort was part of life then.
Men don't change it's circumstance that changes.

I've heard people say things like " I wouldn't have been able to hack it in the trenches like those [WW1] guys!"

What choice did they have? Some working class kid from Belfast or Northumberland was no better prepared for the horrors of the Somme etc than we are.

Determined Men charging up a hill getting shot at all the way, Finally to arrive at the defence and having to attack other similar armed men. Men armed with cold steel bayonets attached to the rifle in their hands.

Little Round Top? Flanders Field? or the Battle for Mount Longdon, Falkland Islands 1982.

 

[plain old dave]

This is actually how I shoot *my* Krag. Note the OR.

Most of what we know about precision riflery dates to the immediate aftermath of the Span-Am War, and this book:

http://www.archive.org/stream/modernrifleshoot00huds#page/34/mode/2up

Dr. Hudson's book was the first scientific treatise on precision rifle shooting. It had gotten so bad by the later 1880s that the target was redrawn to an oval shape to account for the dreadfully indifferent .45-70 issue ammo at longer range.

 

[penates]

A great picture!
I have seen this position referenced in quite a few 19th Century shooting competitions. I doubt it is still taught unless you are shooting black powder cartridge rifle shooting!

The position is called the Creedmore. It was used in 1000 yard competition in the late 19th century. Rifles used then generally had 34 inch bull barrels and were burning around 110 grains of black powder behind a 400 to 500 grain lead bullet.

 

[Mr Lilleythorpe]

I've just tried holding my .22 (Yes, I know, but it's the best I can do!) like that, and it's bloody awkward.

 

[TarHeel1911]

The current name for the DCM is the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP). I don't shoot rifle, but I know they are still very active.

 

[penates]

You have to have a pretty long barrel for optimal comfort in that position, at least 28 inches or more. Also diopter sights or a scope with a lot of eye relief.

 

[BigFitz]

I believe the soldiers in the photo are demonstrating the three firing positions: standing, kneeling, and prone. The hand held closer to the received provides better stablilty than extending your arm towards the barrel.

I am sure our members will give a much better explanation with historical reference!

The explanation of stability is right on. The only hisorical reference I can give however, is my own personal experience with the M-16 at the 200 yard line.

 

[1961MJS]

Hi

Try this link:

http://www.researchpress.co.uk/longrange/backposition.htm

The Creedmoor position is VERY stable, but in my opinion, difficult to get into at first. It is more stable and easier to get into than kneeling though. We still teach Kneeling and sitting in 4H. The offhand position shown earlier with the elbow touching the chest is also stable. That offhand position is not really a combat shooting stance, if you are shooting at something 200 yard away you should have time to get into a prone position.

Just my $0.02