Review of the Eastman 'Luftwaffe' jacket, NEW

[johnnyjohnny]

danke

thanks stearman, johnnynotoes (sorry about your digit loss) and aswatland...

it seems that many of the aficionados of the german pilot jackets prefer the hartmann...i think the real ones that i've seen were nice, but so many of the replicas have the lower pockets looking like little women's purses that have been stuck on to the jacket...i was sorry to see eastman add some length to their hartmann, which takes away from the short jacket essence of these 30s/40s jackets...but among the one i've got and the original hartmann, the hartmann does have a more vintage look...guess i'm just a modernist ;D

thanks all for sharing in my fun in getting the jacket

 

[deanglen]

I can't tell if the problem these days is a jacket that's just too short...or pants that are just too low in the waist. This modern re-defining where your trousers should ride in your middle is the real problem, for me, not the jacket length. Nothing like be in the minority on this point, but flight suit underneath or not, those vintage short jackets were not short by accident. Were they?







dean

 

[ukali1066]

Looks great on you Johnny !!

Here's my favourite aquisition...it's not with me at the moment, Aeroleather have it for relining and repairs....[ notice the badly aligned zip ]

Genuine 1930's/40's era cycle jacket

I love the cut of this baby...the short length and the styling of the low pockets...

 

[johnnyjohnny]

nice! and everyone on the fedlounge who's got the joneses for hartmann luftwaffe jackets should like the small flap pockets on the bottom...i, however, love slanted breast zip pockets (no, that's not a sexual fetish!)...looks kewl

i would, however, really like to know how aero refurbishes it...we all have stuff that we'd like to bring back to perfection, and it would be nice to know there's some place out there that can do that...if there is i'd guess it would be aero...please let us know, with pix if possible, how that turns out

 

[P5640blouson]

Jacket quality

Nice Eastman, the design is mouthwatering, no doubt. However, after reading your posts and comparing your language with your pictures, I was a little dissapointed at the difference in build and material when compared with Lewis. The hide difference and thin-ness of and between the panels a noticeable from new. The construction, although fine, is not quite as accurate as Lewis. Perhaps this is where the vintage-ness lies. In terms of refinement overall, I was expecting to see something along the lines of the following pictures when described as you described it:
Please don't take me the wrong way, this is in my honest attempt to find what is the finest out there and to hopefully obtain it, someday.

 

[johnnyjohnny]

howdy P5640blouson...

i think if anything your views may be fueled by my having taken the eastman luftwaffe shots at night with artificial and low lighting, vs. in the day and with added artificial lighting for the lewis, giving the photos a less quality look

however, i can assure you the eastman is the finest craftsmanship and articulation of detail as well as sewing...there comes some lens distortion (i have a zoom lens) with zoom lenses and lower light shots...so the slight distortion, might make things appear less crisply cut or defined

but i've posted the pix together to explain the differences i see...most noteworthy being the lewis has thicker, stiffer leather with the cowhide vs. the more flexible and supple horse...here we go:

1. on moi...the lewis is clearly stiffer, less flexibly wrapping around my body, not just because of the leather stiffness, but the eastman is more fitted, and surprisingly, with slightly oversize shoulder length which i like...the eastman is much less tight and restricting in the upper torso, while at the same time less stiffly large on the waist as was the lewis, tho i could tighten up the straps, but that might make it more restrictive overall...

this is not a knock on the lewis, but it is more a 60s rocker style, clean, straight pattern cuts, compounded by the stiff leather...it would take some time to break this in (given one doesn't dump it in a maytag as i've heard some people do here on fedlounge) and i'm sure it would be much more conforming...but i did find the eastman to be more fitted to the body, vs. having a straighter cut with clean 1960s lines that must 'fit' or conform over time...don't know if the 'me' pix convey this, but i can see it, and i certainly felt it whilst wearing

also, you might notice larger threads more widely spaced, and a larger slightly flappier collar on the lewis...more of the rocker look that would reach it's apex with the elvis '68 leather jacket collar...very cool, but the eastman's smaller, more modest and fitted collar is more 40s, and more to my personal liking, except when in rocker mode...again, not a knock on lewis, just the differences and my subjective preference for the old '40s look

and to be fair to lewis, their jacket is NOT a 40s biker jacket, but the very early '60s rocker/biker jacket that has the earlier luftwaffe/french biker jacket in it's genetic coding, but has grown beyond (how's that for pedantic overanalyzing ;D

2. now the back and front without me in it...i'd say the fronts look astoundingly similar, but again, the lewis has slightly cleaner straighter lines, and the slightly larger triangular wings which are the collar...and, of course, the less antiquated waist latch and clean zip minus the redundant snap on the cuffs, and no rustic snap on the neck (tho i adorrre the antiquation in the eastman, but appreciate the more modern '60s look of the lewis in it's cleaning up such features)

the back of the eastman luftwaffe, whilst suffering perhaps most from the bad lighting of my photos, nevertheless shows the 'fitting' i spoke about...the lewis is basically that straight, clean, flat back, whilst the eastman looks like a cobra ready to spring, reflecting it's more pronounced size drop from chest to waist (even without straps cinched), but also reflecting the gathers at the waist in the back, which really puffs out the back into that mean cobra-esque, bad boy look...tho it was probably not made to look bad boy, but to fit the round topography of the back, and hence be more fitted to the wearer


lewis on me (me with weird smile):

lewis front:

lewis back:

now compare to the eastman luftwaffe:

me with eastman, no smile grimace:

eastman luftwaffe front:

eastman luftwaffe back:

in closing, both were size 46, both were very similar vis a vis the full genre of moto jackets, but when worn, and examined, one can discern the strong differences in jackets that came from the same heritage, but reflect 20 years of time difference, and 2 different national heritages...and for the eastman luftwaffe i must point out that it may originally be french heritage, but by the early 40s when this design became rampant in the 'waffe', these were starting to be made by german leather tailors

both are superb, there is no way to put one beyond the other except to state one's preferences for elements of one or the other...and, tho i'm a child of the sixties, i harken back 20 years prior in where my loyalties truly lie, i.e. the late 30s/40s

now, i hope not to alienate you P5640blouson, my friend, but the jacket pictures you posted do not, to me anyway, reflect a jacket that would give the eastman luftwaffe a challenge...it does have more antique tailoring and features, but the leather looks very clean, pliable without being aged, in fact new, and processed, to wit the overly uniform grain, like a nice replica of a past design...very very nice, but not something that was made in the 40s or 30s, as it's design implies...

i heartily enjoy the analysis and hearing (reading) your take on it...i hope i've pointed out a few things that give more insight into the difference between these fine, but very different jackets, the lewis dominator, and the eastman luftwaffe

 

[P5640blouson]

Interesting insights

Thanks for putting up with my counterpoints. Your descriptions of the Luftwaffe jacket has increased my interest in experiencing that period piece. I am more a fan of the mandarin type collar at this moment due to its sporty no frills look, but the Luftwaffe does give that type of jacket (ala German Flyers, French cyclist, etc.) the gusto that the jacket holds historically. I do like it and would consider one in the future. It is posts like these that help those in the market make a better decisions for finding what they want. I'm sure many here have benefitted from this.

Would you mind sharing with us the actual chest circumference of your Luftwaffe relative to its label size? Your other post about chest size is an important one, as well in helping determine size.

 

[johnnyjohnny]

thanks P5640blouson, it is fun sharing info...as for counterpoints, my favorite show growing up was firing line...i disagreed politically completely with william f. buckley, but loved him and his circuitous diatribes

let me assure you that you would adore the eastman luftwaffe...pix and descriptions, though the fare of my career in journalism, never really do tell the story of something there before you...this jacket is like a piece of history in your hands...

already i can hear bellytank groaning with that comment, but i was referring to integrity of construction and leather, including proper vintage tanning methods...but as for historically correct cut and patter/design wise, i'd have to disagree with bellytank even more having this jacket before me...the subtle cut, fit, collar, all are so NOT current...they do harken back...i suppose the actual design of the jacket is arguably not seen as the icon of the '40s luftwaffe, but that aside, this jacket is certainly historically correct design wise to jackets made in the 30s and early 40s, whether they were the ones to pin on the luftwaffe or not

if you like cafe racer collars, take it from me, they will one day bore you if that is all you see in your closet...and aside from that, this collar (unlike the lewis dominator) is very fitted and modest, curving and hugging the neck...it measures collar point to seam on the body, a millimeter under 3"...that's a ritey titey little collar that, like the rest of the jacket, fits nicely to the wearer

if ww2 were judged by style, i'm afraid we'd all be speaking german (oh oh, i can hear the incoming now...hey, i love the a-2 and especially the g-1, and all those irvins...but...)

as for your question...what did you ask? just kidding...the armpit to armpit on this is, laying flat, very flat, zipped, 26"...and, that is 52" around, though the side seam, as you point out, may lay slightly to the front side of the division of that 52"

that is, for records again, 6.5" more than my uninflated chest measurement...but even so, this has no bi-swing (don't mean that in a kink sense), so the larger size is not just my style, but probably a good idea to give extra room for arm movement...i know the actual luftwaffers wore these things glued on, but i think it looks wholly better with some room...as witness this totally authentic luftwaffe pilot in his totally authentic jacket, totally too tight imho:

why they lost the war? jackets too tight? probably a revisionist viewpoint

 

[P5640blouson]

tight tight

Yes, I agree, tight jacket (i.e. less than 3 inch slack in chest) will offer some noticeable restriction in arm movement when new if it has no bi-swing back. I have about 3 inches in my Lewis Sportsman and when new it was quite restrictive in the enclosed driving position. Fit-wise, I still think I need a tighter jacket than my size 38 (just under 40 internal circumference- liner and leather takes up space from teh 40 inch outside chest circumference). at 36.5 uninflated chest and 31 around the belly, I can fit a 36 (38.5inch jacket interior) but depending on the back design, the sleeve design and armhole design, I may be left with flexibility issues. Then there is the whole question of shoulder width. I like the shoulders spot on and for the most part a 38 goes just over my shoulder edge whilst a 36 is just under. My tailor told me that I am really a 37 with button up shirt on so that is my disadvantage.

Regarding mandarin collars, I like a sleek traditional collar, as well, but those are so hard to come by. Your Luftwaffe is one of the few jackets with such a slick collar. Their, I said something nice.

 

[ukali1066]

I really prefer the tight fitted look...Erich Hartmann looks great there....but it is a style only carried off well by the scrawny...

I will post pics of the refurb job on the above jacket when Aero get round to it....they've had it 11 months

 

[Edward]

if ww2 were judged by style, i'm afraid we'd all be speaking german (oh oh, i can hear the incoming now...hey, i love the a-2 and especially the g-1, and all those irvins...but...)

lol I've raised a few eyebrows before now saying something similar.... a lot of folks don't feel able to separate an appreciation of the style (although obivously one would never be so ridiculous as to actually think it acceptable to wear a black SS uniform these days!) from the heinous acts committed by those wearing them. Which is, I think, wholly understandable.... and perhaps in some bizarre, warped way a tribute to the design insofar as it still has such an effect upon us as we look at them nowadays. I am in no doubt that the designs of the German uniforms in the Hitler period, especially the political organisations, the SA and the non-Wehrmacht wing of the SS, were designed as much for their psychological impact upon the enemy as for utilitarian purposes. Nowadays - dress uniformas aside, of course, - it seems military clothing concentrate entirely upon what is practical in the field, not upon the look of it. Obviously this reflects the 20th Century move away from pitched battles and into guerilla style fighting as the main thrust of ground-based warfare. Interesting too how in the military, just as in civilian wear, clothing became pronouncedly less formal over time, with the remnants of what were once the field uniforms of fighting men being seen only on very rare, uber-formal occasions nowadays. It would be interesting to see this studied as a comparison to the civilian arena.... We have often discussed on the Lounge the influence the military have had upon civilian style; see, for instance, the A2 and the B15 USAAF flying jackets, echoes of which can still be seen to day in a huge proportion of short, casual jackets on the market. I wodner were the military style leaders to any degree in their gradual casualisation, or were they simply part of a much wider social trend?

however, I digress....

why they lost the war? jackets too tight? probably a revisionist viewpoint

Heh... maybe. I like how Hartman looks there, but as has already been said, not all of us can get away with such a neat fit. The point regarding jacket design is definitely an important one. My Aero AN6552 is a 42R, good fit on me but very definitely noticeably neater than a used 42R Eastman A2 I picked up very recently. The Aero can be neater on me and still comfortable due to the nature of the more complicated design, with the action back pleat allowing easier movement with the arms. For further comparison, last year I bought one of Mark's (Fishmoek) jackets - the one based on a photo of an anti-fascist fighter in the Spanish Civil War. Essentially, it is an A1 design, but with a front zip instead of buttons. Great jacket in a very period accurate 30s style neat fit. Sized at a 44, it is as neat a fit on me as the Aero AN6552 - the difference being the cut, non-bellows arms, etc. To further complicate the picture, I've been told that in order to get the fit I'd be after, I would need a 40R in an Aero Bootlegger.... It's always, always about the cut. I do wonder if that is why nowadays one sees so many people in general in ill-fitting jackets: maybe they just aren't aware that a 42 (much like '11'...) is not some abstract standard?

 

[johnnyjohnny]

quotable u r

It's always, always about the cut---Edward

an expectedly classic quote from someone who quotes vivienne westwood!

indeed it is about the cut, and, as morally lacking they were, the nazis knew a thing or two about what matters on the material plane, otherwise they couldn't have hoodwinked germany and wrecked the world as they did...hitler had a dark charisma...unfortunately like many in today's public life that appeal to emotions and prejudice vs. higher aspirations (soapbox, i know)

but, nevertheless, here on this lounge we are astute enough to analyze and appreciate style without the moral baggage misuse of it sometimes brings along

unlike the a-2 and g-1, good style is not always the propriety of the 'good guys'...sometimes the bad guys usurp it...

as i believe i saw on the history (hitler) channel in shows about the ss and himler, the design of the ss uniforms were based on hollywood costume design for both their arrogant handsomeness and ability to inspire dominance and fear, as well as egotistical gratification on wearers...hugo boss of all companies made the uniform (talk about haute couture transcending morality over time...but of course the arguable war criminal wernher von braun became a u.s. hero vis a vis the space race, after in ww2 running programs that engendered the forced labour deaths of thousands who slaved to build his v-2 bombs)

as a jew and a democratist who abhors anything fascist, i have no qualms about thinking the luftwaffe ww2 pilot's jacket is the finest jacket designed in modern times...it in no way defines my attitudes toward morality...as you so intelligently, and naturally, understand Edward

and, as you say, it is always about the cut ;D

 

[celtic]

FWIW,
the "neanderthallic", "orangutanian" long arms that you were appalled at on true motorcycle jackets are actually functional when you sit down on a bike and raise your arms.

 

[havocpaul]

In regard to the problems with jackets riding up (or trousers falling down!) perhaps as part of his planned global rule Simon Cowell could market his high-waist trousers for jacket collectors, that should solve it!

 

[jac]

Yup, it's true- gotta have long sleeves for the bike.

Ladies purses...heeheeeheeee.lol

Squeeze into a 280zx? I just got rid of my beloved '81 280zxgl (237k+ miles) and thought it was way more roomy than the 325is I've got now. (I wear a 44 too)...

Great, great cars, but only in the SW, salt eats EVERYTHING back east!

 

[johnnyjohnny]

col kurtz...uh, i mean celtic...i of course knew that, i was just referring to my backward attitude originally when i first came to wearing biker jackets...now, i prefer the look, even tho i haven't ridden a bike since 1973 when earlier that year i took out the side of a new capri on pch in california with my yamaha enduro...no damage to me, $800+ to the new crapi...er, capri...God was guiding my brake-slide that day

havocpaul...sorry, not uptodate on the simon cowell controversy...i think i'll sit that one out

jack...yuppers, i'm out here in lalaland...maybe you can help me, cold starts on cold mornings are a b!tch...otherwise she's a beautiful runner...mechanic says it might be the cold start sensor...turns over and over on cold morning until finally catching, but it sputters a bit at first.....and yes, the cockpit is big with a lot of legroom surprisingly, but very low slunggg

your 81, not my 82 auto, which doesn't look this nice...more like a madd maxx mobile

 

[garzo]

Johnny,

how do the lengths on the Eastman and Lewis compare? Are they about the same length?

I'm planning on getting a Lewis Dominator soon and am not sure how long it should be on me. I think they are cut relatively short, about a 25" back or so, no?

I'm about 5'11" but have a long torso and somewhat short legs. Well, I don't exactly look misshapen or simian-like, but I do prefer a bit of length in my jackets, especially as I don't wear my pants very high.

Not sure if I should ask for 26" or 27" back length. Any suggestions or observations would be much appreciated.

G

 

[johnnyjohnny]

bax

hi garzo...it's been so long prior to my having sold the the dominator...i did ask them to pull in the waist by 1", and it still was not as tapered as the eastman, but either the length was 26" in a size 46, or i had asked them to give me a 27", but you should definitely email them as they will be very forthcoming...great customer service, same as with eastman

i did find the dominator maybe a half size too well-fitting around the chest and shoulders, whereas the eastman luftwaffe is a bit looser in the same size...this is, where i think, knowing your optimal jacket armpit to armpit/or chest circumference comes in handy...by the time i ordered the eastman i knew i needed at least a 26" armpit to armpit for the fit i like, slightly loose...but i think (check on it) the size 46 dominator has a 25.5" armpit to armpit, and certainly a smaller shoulder to shoulder, which is large 21.5" on the eastman for a size 46...i'm sure the dominator is smaller than that

what i recommend is contacting them and finding out what their stock measurements are for the dimensions that are required by you (such as back) and then see what size they recommend, and ask for adjustments for whatever dimensions you prefer different...but i would keep that to a minimum, only something that is perhaps not right for you on a size that otherwise would work...i've tried micromanaging dimensions on an aero i bought, and i regretted it, not because it wasn't good, but i had created what mark moye at aero calls a frankenjacket...some like doing that...i would prefer to have the company's jacket with maybe a dimension or two at most altered to fit special needs...but that's me

good luck, you'll love it

 

[Seb Lucas]

Hey JJ what's the length of the new jacket in front - from the bottom of the collar to the bottom of the jacket? And how tall are you? I ask because I can never work out if a jacket for me should be 22 or 25 inches in front.

 

[Stearmen]

Pilots

Over the years I have known two Luftwaffe pilots. The first was a Nazi, he freely admitted it! Like many, he started in the Hitler Youth, then ended up in gliders, and finally as a pilot. He was checking out in BF109s when the war ended. He was funny, when ever the war came up in a conversation he would just say, "that damn Hitler"! The second was never a Nazi, he was born to German parents in South America. He learned to fly by watching his father, then stealing his plane! When the war started, he was sent back to Germany, ending up in the Luftwaffe. They did not trust him much, so he spent the early part of the war testing Stukas. He finally flew his first combat, tank busting against the Russians. He was recalled and flew Bf109s in defense of the Father Land. He graduated to Me262s, which was a great story just checking out in one. I think he was an ace, their system was complicated, simply shotting down 5 did not do it! To show you how messed up Nazi Germany was, he was grounded for lack of fuel, a flight of B-24s flew over and he said "I wish we were up there, B-24s are easy to shoot down". Then one of the young pilots said, "you know all those crews are prisoners from Sing Sing, and if they fly enough missions they can go free"! My friend innocently said, "no they are pilots just like us". The next day, when he landed from a mission, there was a man in a black trench coat to greet him. The man said, "you are comming with me", my friend said, "I'm not going any where with a f**king Civilian", the man pulled out his credentials, Gestapo! He was taken to jail to await being sent to a concentration camp! Lucky for him, there was a delay, one day some P-47s were bombing neer them and missed. One bomb created a crack in the wall, since Walter had lost so much weight he was able to crawl out! He walked untile he was captured by the Americans. He helped them with bombing intellegence, this led him to work for the army and eventual citizenship. He later worked for Cessna, finishing his career as a test pilot on the Citation Jet! He had no real German accent, and was quite proud of that fact! Unfortunately neither is around to ask about what kind of jacket they wore.