Retro-extremists? What are we called?

[repeatclicks]

Remind me again why it is so important to have what is essentially a 'blanket term' for people into vintage?

I'd rather not have a label attached to me, being pigeonholed into one specific term. That's one of the reasons I am into vintage. It is individual to everyone.

I have friends who dance swing/shag/charleston/balboa/jive and don't wear the clothes or have anything vintage. I also have friends who dance and do collect/wear vintage. I also have friends who don't dance but collect and wear vintage, and lastly, I have friends who don't fall into either category but sell vintage furniture for a living.

This whole idea of being a 'clockstopper', 'retroactive' or any other term is honestly silly and 100% nerdy. I find it strange that it's okay for people who are into vintage to put a restricting label on themselves, but if some Joe Q. Public placed a label on you, you would most likely be offended inside.

 

[grundie]

Remind me again why it is so important to have what is essentially a 'blanket term' for people into vintage?

I'd rather not have a label attached to me, being pigeonholed into one specific term. That's one of the reasons I am into vintage. It is individual to everyone.

I have to agree with this.

I think society demands that if you aren't deemed to be average or normal then you must be given a classification.

I dress the way I do because I like to dress that way. I'm not part of a club or sub-culture, I'm just me.

I frequently experience people asking me why I dress like this assuming that I am part of a cultural grouping or suchlike. I usually respond with a cheery "Dressed liked what?" and go on to feign ignorance of what they are talking about. Why should I be required to have specific reasons for dressing the way I like to dress.

The problem with accepting a blanket term for your particular style of living is that it can sometimes become a rod to break your back. Look at how the terms goth, emo and punk are used to denigrate those who live these lifestyles?

I may have an interest in vintage living, but that doesn't make me part of any sub-culture.

(I'm sorry if this sounds like a bit of a rant)

 

[LizzieMaine]

Not to belabor an old point, but if you go back and look at the beginning of this thread, what the Senator was looking for was a specifc term for a specific type of "vintage person" -- those who live, to the extent possible, a full-immersion sort of life with as little involvement or interaction as possible with modern-day culture. It was never intended to be a term to cover all vintage enthusiasts.

 

[MisterCairo]

Remind me again why it is so important to have what is essentially a 'blanket term' for people into vintage?


This whole idea of being a 'clockstopper', 'retroactive' or any other term is honestly silly and 100% nerdy. I find it strange that it's okay for people who are into vintage to put a restricting label on themselves, but if some Joe Q. Public placed a label on you, you would most likely be offended inside.

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[repeatclicks]

Not to belabor an old point, but if you go back and look at the beginning of this thread, what the Senator was looking for was a specifc term for a specific type of "vintage person" -- those who live, to the extent possible, a full-immersion sort of life with as little involvement or interaction as possible with modern-day culture. It was never intended to be a term to cover all vintage enthusiasts.

Well Lizzie, that's essentially me, but not quite. My wife and I regularly wear vintage clothes, go to vintage clubs, collect vintage home-wares and will one day own a vintage car and house. The majority of modern clothing, homes and lifestyles do not appeal to us. Things were indeed made better back then, using better materials. My wife does not drink and I barely drink, so going out to 'party' in the modern sense of the word, would ultimately be boring.

When you say 'Modern Day Culture' what does this include? Friends? Family? Events? Jobs? Food? Can I assume that you are referring to those who have zero involvement with the modern world full stop? If this is the case, there are terms for those people already, and none of them are exactly positive. Correct me if I am wrong, but the type of person you are describing sounds like someone who has few friends and may even have some other deeply rooted issues to work out, and that is a bit scary.


I refuse to ignore the fact that we live in modern times. Things are different, some things are worse, but then again there are a few things that are better. If I could, I would take everything from the late 40s- late 50s and put it in 2010. I would not want to live in the 50s. Ever. I was born in the 80s for a reason, and perhaps if I lived in the 50s I could not fully appreciate what they had back then.

We do it because we love it, because it is fun and we have lots of friends who do it too. There is something to be said about being around lots of other people who 'get it' when you talk about the drape of vintage gabardine, the cut of a 50s suit, and the way that tube radios sound 'warmer'. The rumble of a Hemi V8 or Ford Flathead... There is a passion to it for us. I probably would not be into vintage as much as I am now, were it not for the group of people here in London that share the enjoyment of it as much as I do.

 

[LizzieMaine]

When you say 'Modern Day Culture' what does this include? Friends? Family? Events? Jobs? Food? Can I assume that you are referring to those who have zero involvement with the modern world full stop? If this is the case, there are terms for those people already, and none of them are exactly positive. Correct me if I am wrong, but the type of person you are describing sounds like someone who has few friends and may even have some other deeply rooted issues to work out, and that is a bit scary.

My definition of "culture" is exactly that -- the cultural environment of the modern era: the music, the literature, the philosophies, the overall zeitgeist of the present day. Some of us here choose to reject all of those -- not because we're maladjusted, but because either we weren't raised in that culture to begin with, or we chose, after careful consideration, to remove ourselves from it.

I wasn't raised in the same culture as someone born in the '80s -- I grew up in a world of party-line telephones, manual typewriters, wringer washers, Spam sandwiches, and refrigerators you had to defrost. The culture I grew up in in a small 1960s-70s blue-collar town, had much more in common with a Golden Era culture than the contemporaneous culture of those times, and modern culture, such as it is, simply seems alien to me. I have as little contact with it as i can -- obviously, I have a computer, which has its practical uses, and I see a lot of modern independent films because of my job -- but in general, I see no need to have anything to do with most of it. I find no need to justify that point of view to anyone, nor do I demand that anyone else justify their point of view to me -- in the words of Popeye T. Sailor, I yam what I yam and that's all that I yam -- but at the same time I recognize that there's likely to be a substantial difference between my worldview and that of someone who, say, dresses up vintage to go clubbing. A ahorthand way of describing that difference is what the Senator had in mind when he started that thread.

 

[reetpleat]

Well Lizzie, that's essentially me, but not quite. My wife and I regularly wear vintage clothes, go to vintage clubs, collect vintage home-wares and will one day own a vintage car and house. The majority of modern clothing, homes and lifestyles do not appeal to us. Things were indeed made better back then, using better materials. My wife does not drink and I barely drink, so going out to 'party' in the modern sense of the word, would ultimately be boring.

When you say 'Modern Day Culture' what does this include? Friends? Family? Events? Jobs? Food? Can I assume that you are referring to those who have zero involvement with the modern world full stop? If this is the case, there are terms for those people already, and none of them are exactly positive. Correct me if I am wrong, but the type of person you are describing sounds like someone who has few friends and may even have some other deeply rooted issues to work out, and that is a bit scary.


I refuse to ignore the fact that we live in modern times. Things are different, some things are worse, but then again there are a few things that are better. If I could, I would take everything from the late 40s- late 50s and put it in 2010. I would not want to live in the 50s. Ever. I was born in the 80s for a reason, and perhaps if I lived in the 50s I could not fully appreciate what they had back then.

We do it because we love it, because it is fun and we have lots of friends who do it too. There is something to be said about being around lots of other people who 'get it' when you talk about the drape of vintage gabardine, the cut of a 50s suit, and the way that tube radios sound 'warmer'. The rumble of a Hemi V8 or Ford Flathead... There is a passion to it for us. I probably would not be into vintage as much as I am now, were it not for the group of people here in London that share the enjoyment of it as much as I do.

Minor point, but I don't think drinking a lot or a little or clubbing is modern. I would love nothing more than to go out to Harlem, then to a late night jam session in an apartment basement that lasts till six in the morning, although at my age i might not make it quite so alcohol fueled, and certainly would not be smoking reefer or taking benzedrine. But the idea of partying all night is hardly modern. Part of the problem with the whole vintage idea is that people want to start believing that there is such thing as vintage values. True, they were talked about a lot. But last I heard, politicians were still trying to push "family values" no matter their own personal life. But drinking, drugs, philandering, cheating, lying, stealing, gambling, are hardly new. in fact, despite the old movies, check out info on New York in the 1800s, or maybe kansas city in the 1920s, or Deadwood during the gold boom. Life was quite shockingly rough, dangerous, and decadent. I think few of us could actually survive in the 1880s deadwood.

As for having a name, the whole intent of this thread was to consider somehow claiming a name so that outsiders could not do it for us. I think this might be admirable except one, I don't really care, now would I have when I was hardcore vintage (unless it was a really stupid one) and two, doubt it could be done anyway. Although I think with the internet, wikipedia, and viral marketing available now, now would be the best time possible in all of history to try and do it.

 

[Tiller]

I have to agree with this.

I think society demands that if you aren't deemed to be average or normal then you must be given a classification.

I dress the way I do because I like to dress that way. I'm not part of a club or sub-culture, I'm just me.

I frequently experience people asking me why I dress like this assuming that I am part of a cultural grouping or suchlike. I usually respond with a cheery "Dressed liked what?" and go on to feign ignorance of what they are talking about. Why should I be required to have specific reasons for dressing the way I like to dress.

The problem with accepting a blanket term for your particular style of living is that it can sometimes become a rod to break your back. Look at how the terms goth, emo and punk are used to denigrate those who live these lifestyles?

I may have an interest in vintage living, but that doesn't make me part of any sub-culture.

(I'm sorry if this sounds like a bit of a rant)

Not to be an ass, but you are part of a subculture whether you want to be or not, especially to the "dominate" culture at large. As soon as their were enough individuals who follow a trend, or lifestyle, they are labeled for many purposes, (usually for simply identification) and our little subculture has reached that size, largely thanks to shows such as Mad Men, and other period shows in the modern pop culture. This labeling has already happened, especially for the American male members of the vintage community. We are known as "retrosexual" to the culture at large. I don't like the name, but none the less it is what it is.

Anyone can reject it all they want, tell everyone who sees them that they are simply an individual. They can say how "nerdy" it is to have labels, and be annoyed by it, but to the culture at large you are following a fashion trend, and making a statement with your clothing. Everyone does whether they desire to or not, and people will see them threw that label. Whether they choose to let that bother them or not is their affair, but honestly they can't stop people from putting them in the "vintage" and "retrosexual" subculture, unless they change their style once again.

Welcome to the modern age..

 

[repeatclicks]

Not to be an ass, but you are part of a subculture whether you want to be or not.

For starters, you said it, not me.

I am not rejecting anything. At no point did I mention that I was annoyed at being in a subcutlre. I have been part of a subculture since I was a teenager, and this one is no different, this I am aware of. It started with BMX and Skateboarding and moved onto the indie scene, then the avant garde. The point I am making is that I don't care what label anyone else puts on me, I am my own person.

I'm very proud to say that I am part of a 50s subculture. London is one of the greatest cities to live in right now if you are into vintage anything. We have the best clubs, events, days out, you name it. I could go to a different night out for every day of the week at this point.

If people here want to make themselves feel better by putting their own label on themselves that's fine, but I have no idea what purpose it serves.

A prime example is Straight Edge Hardcore punk. Here is a subculture that adheres to strict rules of no drinking, no drugs, no smoking, and if you are a Hardliner, no sex or eating anything that came from an animal.

My wife doesn't drink, doesn't do drugs and doesn't smoke, and she listens to some hardcore punk, but she doesn't call herself straight edge.

Does that make sense?

What I am trying to say is that there is simply no need to label yourself. Just BE YOURSELF.

 

[Hercule]

I should think anachronist would be most appropriate.

H

 

[repeatclicks]

As for having a name, the whole intent of this thread was to consider somehow claiming a name so that outsiders could not do it for us. .

Yes I hear your point. I think what I said was taken largely out of context. I understand that 'clubbing' has been around for donkeys years and that drinking, drugs and promiscuous sex and all that malarkey came with it. I am wise to that.

I am proud to be part of a 50s subculture, and I am totally cool that there are labels attached to it, but I just find it strange that people inside the subculture are attempting to do it themselves. Outsiders eusa_doh: ) have put labels many, many times over the years, the media has covered it many times (Time Warp Wives anyone)?

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think there's value in the idea of deciding for yourself what you want your worldview to be called for specific reason that someone from the outside isn't likely to understand it. That's precisely the reason why i like "atavist" for myself -- I consider myself a throwback/survivor of an otherwise lost culture. A cutural coleacanth, if you will.

I realize and am resigned to the fact that I have no control over what other people will call me -- which I find ever so entertaining in a world that takes such smug pride in its supposed open-mindedness -- but if someone asks, I have a name and explanation ready.

 

[repeatclicks]

My definition of "culture" is exactly that -- the cultural environment of the modern era: the music, the literature, the philosophies...
I wasn't raised in the same culture as someone born in the '80s -- I grew up in a world of party-line telephones, manual typewriters, wringer washers, Spam sandwiches, and refrigerators you had to defrost.

Yes, and I grew up in a similar culture, minus the wringer washer, believe it or not. I used to sit and watch my mom type out invoices for my dads business on a manual typewriter, unplug the fridge to defrost and clean it, and use tuner knobs and adjust bunny ears to watch the television. I used to have to stand at the phone in the kitchen to talk to my girlfriend, I had a curfew and I adhered to it, etc. We hated spam though.

I find no need to justify that point of view to anyone, nor do I demand that anyone else justify their point of view to me -- in the words of Popeye T. Sailor, I yam what I yam and that's all that I yam -- but at the same time I recognize that there's likely to be a substantial difference between my worldview and that of someone who, say, dresses up vintage to go clubbing.

Hmm I think you may have missed my point. I wasn't singling you out personally here, but you seem to have taken it that way. My wife and I don't 'dress up' in anything to go 'clubbing'. We wear the clothes on a daily basis just like you do, only we accept that there is a modern world out there that is still full of wonderful people creating wonderful things every day (yes, they still exist after the first half of the last century).

I apologize if this came across rude or harsh, as I did not mean it in this way, but your way of thinking is at polar opposites to mine and in all honesty I struggle with that.

 

[jamespowers]

I realize and am resigned to the fact that I have no control over what other people will call me -- which I find ever so entertaining in a world that takes such smug pride in its supposed open-mindedness -- but if someone asks, I have a name and explanation ready.

I am to the point that I am about ready to start handing out brochures so I won't have to waste time explaining.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Hmm I think you may have missed my point. I wasn't singling you out personally here, but you seem to have taken it that way. My wife and I don't 'dress up' in anything to go 'clubbing'. We wear the clothes on a daily basis just like you do, only we accept that there is a modern world out there that is still full of wonderful people creating wonderful things every day (yes, they still exist after the first half of the last century).

I'm sure there are, but they just don't resonate with me. It's like reading the National Geographic -- I can read about fascinating cultures in obscure parts of the world, and appreciate that they have meaning to others. But I don't feel any need to actually participate in those cultures, because to do so wouldn't be true to who I actually am. I feel the same way about modernity -- if you like it, fine. But it's not for me.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I am to the point that I am about ready to start handing out brochures so I won't have to waste time explaining.

I think we need to get tracts printed to hand out on the street corner. THE WORLD ENDED IN 1945.

 

[jamespowers]

I think we need to get tracts printed to hand out on the street corner. THE WORLD ENDED IN 1945.

lol lol lol lol lol lol :eusa_clap

 

[Edward]

I'm sure there are, but they just don't resonate with me. It's like reading the National Geographic -- I can read about fascinating cultures in obscure parts of the world, and appreciate that they have meaning to others. But I don't feel any need to actually participate in those cultures, because to do so wouldn't be true to who I actually am. I feel the same way about modernity -- if you like it, fine. But it's not for me.

Myself, I'm quite the fan of how The Chap styles itself and its agenda as 'Modernity in moderation'.

 

[LizzieMaine]

lol lol lol lol lol lol :eusa_clap

 

[jamespowers]

I would love it if we could charge each person who asks us what we are supposed to be 5 cents. I would be a multi-millionaire by now. lol