Response to a PRiVaTE message on A-2 QUALiTY

[johnnyjohnny]

oddly enough, today i received one of the best new military jackets i've ever bought, and at the same time received a private message on the vintageleatherjackets.org forum regarding my review of a uswings a-2 i purchased earlier this year...

i'll start out with a brief scathingly positive review of the jacket i just snagged (suspense for a few more sentences) and then follow with my response to the private message...

ok, the jacket i got was a new gibson and barnes (flightsuits.com) g-1 jacket...i'd been about to get one from them direct, but finances kept putting me back, so when i found a new 46R on ebay i couldn't resist (someone's wife had gotten him one, at the same time he'd gotten himself one as well...wish we all had such problemas)

the gibson and barnes arrived today, and i can say honestly i have never had a leather military jacket constructed more beautifully than this, nor with such a superb fit...to think that these sell for $328 on their website is amazing...this is superb workmanship, no errors whatsoever, and pocket placement (within 1/16" of the same distance from the bottom for all four corners of both front pockets, whereas for comparison the best i'd had from a uswings g-1 was it's two pockets being within 1/8" of the same distance form the jacket bottom, and that was the best)

and yes, the guy had been honest, this was a new, unworn g-1...for (don't cry) $200...hey, we all deserve something good now and then...

now, my response to the private message from the fellow...he'd read my review a while back of a uswings a-2 i'd gotten, which was a non-defective jacket except for a few threads and stitches loose...however the review had mentioned that many other jackets i'd gotten from uswings had had defects in them, about 75 percent of them in fact...

the fellow had just had a similar experience, had sent his a-2 back for replacement, and wanted to let me know...this is what i private messaged back to him (without revealing his name or i.d. on that website):

"hi, nice to hear from you...

to be honest, and this is from having bought too much of their stuff over the last 5 years, about 75percent of what you'll get from them iS like that...

it's not uncommon for one pocket to be up to 1/2" higher or lower on a lot of a-2s and g-1s in general...even, or i should say, especially, the ww2 ones had a lot of that going on...however, today, you should expect more from a manufacturer...i'd say uswings and leathercoatsetc.com lead in having these kind of problems with stitches loose, and pockets higher than the other side...i even suspect both manufacturers use 'unite', a u.s. union production company, for their jackets...i know leathercoatsetc does, as well as schott (tho they charge a lot more, and the quality control is hence better there)

but do be prepared to send back and back your jackets to uswings, like i have had to...i was lucky to get my a-2 and not have any major problems with it, but my g-1 kept having problems after problems...i don't know if the review you are reading mentioned that, but after the third return they kept my shipping money, refunded the jacket cost, and refused me as a customer, which is good actually...they couldn't send a g-1 that didn't have a hole punched in it inadvertently by the tag, or that had pockets mismatched, or had a tear in the leather

cockpitusa jackets are good, but also can have some of the same pocket distance problems, but at least when you send something back to one of their sellers (acejackets.com or flyingtigerssurplus.com) and ask them to make sure the next one you get is defect free, they will do it)

the best i've found of the affordable u.s. manufacturers is gibson and barnes, or flightsuits.com...they have some pretty expensive stuff, but all the companies do, however, gibson/barnes stock militaryspec g-1 or goat a-2 is very competitively priced with uswings and cockpitusa, and the quality, honestly, is par excellent...they do NOT make a ww2 replica that is legitimately cut like a ww2 jacket...all their a-2 cuts are modern milspec, which is fuller than ww2, even their super expensive ww2 horsehide jackets...they do have ww2 replica g-1s (which were not even called g-1s) but they are expensive...but for a modern milspec a-2 or g-1, you cannot get a better u.s. made jacket for the price, which again, is only a tad higher than uswings

i just got a milspec current issue g-1 from gibson/barnes and i doubt there's a better made current issue g-1 out there, anywhere...i think they go for $328 on the website...that is the deaL of the day...same for their a-2s...their cut, even milspec, may be a bit generous, not in being baggy, just being about a half size larger than you expect, so do get inch counts on the armpit to armpit, length, and shoulders from the reps at flightsuits.com over the phone before ordering...better yet take a trip to el cajon and try one on...but over the phone info should suffice...and they pride themselves in NOT sending out the defective merchandise that very easily gets through uswings.com...and this is from buying at least a half-dozen uswings a-2s, g-1s and g-2s over the years

best of luck, do fill me in on what you decide to get...and if uswings manages to get you a jacket without a defect"

...anyway, have a happy new year everyone...and for anyone considering buying a current milspec a-2 or g-1, i'll say i couldn't be happier with the gibson barnes g-1 i just received...

 

[kojax]

i just got the civil g-1 from gibson-barnes dark seal goatskin very well made jacket. for the money the workship is great..........

 

[Doctor Strange]

Chiming in...

After hanging around the various jacket forums since 2001 and running through a fair number of jackets myself, it's pretty clear that FS/G&B makes the best domestically produced current-spec leather flight jackets. And at a fair price.

The other jackets in the same price range (US Wings, Legendary USA, American Mystique - all of which, and even more brand names, I now firmly believe eminate from a single NJ factory - and other domestic makers like Cockpit and Schott) just aren't as well, and consistently, made.

I've got a Civil A-2 and a Historical M-422A from FS/G&B. I've worn the heck out of them (I got the A-2 in December 2001), and they look barely broken in. Their construction quality, materials, stitching, zippers, etc., are all outstanding. Their sizing is consistent, and as a fiftysomething widebody (not a ripped military dude), that it's a modern oversize fit works out just fine for me.

The only complaint I can make about their jackets is that they are TOO perfect, exhibiting consistent, obviously factory-produced quality. They don't have the rough-hewn, handmade feeling of my US Authentic A-2 (which doesn't fit me nearly as well as my FS/G&B jackets, and reproduces a proper WWII jacket pretty poorly... but it's got a certain indefinable SOUL) - a small garage-based maker - or the far more expensive repro jackets from other small operations like Good Wear and the foreign makers.

But this is a pretty high-class problem, being too "perfect"... I have to agree that FS/G&B A-2 and G-1 jackets are definitely superior to US Wings and the other $300-range makers. But this is old news for many of us!

 

[kojax]

i oreded a a-2 civil dark seal goatskin from gibson -barnes should be here in a couple of weeks......i tryed there a-2 horsehide i did not like it driving the the car very uncortable for me. i have there g-1 very nice jacket. HAPPY NEW YEAR

 

[CBI]

with all of the qualitative issues with some of these mid-range repros (not all but most), why not just go for a Goodwear or ELC, Aero, etc? It would save much headache in the long run and they are much nicer jackets (unless one likes the plasticy/vinyl look of the "newer" jackets). It might also save $ in the end seeing as one can have one or two excellent jackets instead of half a dozen so-so ones.

 

[johnnyjohnny]

more iS Le$$

i've alas found your theorem, cbi, to have been proven over the time i've gotten to know, and buy, many jackets

at first, it's a hard piLL to swallow that anything justifies dropping $700 on an a-2 when you can get one that looks sooooo nice on the websites from usawings (noTTT), or even some of the others as you mention

my own issues with usawings notwithstanding, i must agree that at the $300 pricepoint there will be quality control that just cannot be performed...i've seen it time and again, even on some of the mid level brands that offer earnest and superb customer service...however, the most appreciated type of customer service is the kind you don't have to take advantage of

that said, i'll point out that even schott, a mid-level manufacturer that sells at an elevated price point, has the normative amount of slip throughs on quality control...though better than most, but for the price, they should be

the one jacket, after spending too much to mention on lower price point jackets, that rises to the higher ranks is gibson and barnes...and the customer service is the best...they'll shoot the breeze with you, even if you haven't bought anything, ever...that includes some of the top people there

my issue with gibson and barnes is that their cut is modern all across the military leather spectrum (except their g-1 genre, which do ape the boxiness of the MA's when you get into the MA repros)...the modern milspec cut is fine if you are going for a modern milspec jacket (yes, they are modern milspec, nOT modern mall jacket)

so i'd have to put gibson/barnes aka flightsuits.com in a special category of that rare company that offers higher price quality at a mid-level price point

but back to cbi's point, having tried the best of the best, starting with Lewis Leathers, and then aero (haven't tried eastman or goodwear so can't comment, but sure they are superb from the comments here), it would make sense to spend twice as much to get five times as much value