Repro WW2 German Panzer wrap anyone ?

[ukali1066]

Am I alone in thinking one of these worn without the insignia would make a pretty snappy short coat ?

Made of wool...

Panzer black or Assault gun gray...

 

[thunderw21]

You're not alone. They are pretty snazzy. Heck, similar style leather jackets are fairly popular around here.

If done right (not in black?) it won't conjure up images of Nazis or Panzers.

 

[filfoster]

Risky Business

They are very unique and attractive jackets but I would be afraid of offending some sensibilities. Much better off to wear a repro Russian telogreika, which is one very cool jacket. As Joe Covais used to say in his New Columbia advertising, "Possibly the coolest thing ever produced by a totalitarian regime."

 

[ukali1066]

Hmm...I always found the telogreika to be functional for it's intended use but an unattractive padded "sack"

Notice the Panzer wrap has no exposed buttons, probably so they didn't snag sliding in and out of the tank cupola

 

[Guttersnipe]

The pseudo militaristic look has so saturated popular fashion I don't think there is really any danger of raising any eyebrows. People will just assume you're going for a fashion-forward euro look lol.

They are very unique and attractive jackets but I would be afraid of offending some sensibilities. Much better off to wear a repro Russian telogreika, which is one very cool jacket. As Joe Covais used to say in his New Columbia advertising, "Possibly the coolest thing ever produced by a totalitarian regime."

 

[ukali1066]

Yeah I think without deaths head skulls and SS runes nobody would know it's origins....the general public are pretty ignorant of military uniform designs

 

[deanglen]

I've considered the same possibility, they are simply a very stylish, military look. An M-43 cap is easier to spot as an Axis component. I know from experience...so I stopped wearing them even sans insignia.





dean

 

[matrioshka]

deanglen,

I wore one for five years. In that time, I only ever got two comments:

"I like your Greek fisherman's cap" Mind you, this was a grey M43, I could see it if it was black.

"Nice Bundeswehr hat" That was from a middle aged man who served in Germany during the 70's.

This will date me: It was a Janke from Bill Bureau, back before ATF or LB even existed.

I love my telogreika. I have a rather well used Trident special.

FWIW, you could probably wear a panzer wrap around here and no one would notice. Hell, you might even get away with insignia as well.

M

 

[BellyTank]

The German Panzer uniforms, including the trousers, were direct copies
of '30s Ski-wear. As was much of the Hitler Youth winter uniform.
The uniform was adopted, as being appropriate for use in armoured vehicles.
The field grey examples were meant for crews of "open" armoured vehicles,
such as mobile assault guns, offering better "camouflage".
Black was quite popular in '30s Ski-wear.

It's no big deal- the average spectator will not recognise it as "Nazi uniform".

Be aware that there are 2 different styles- the Wehrmacht and SS Panzer jackets are differently styled. It may appear subtle, but look at the collar/lapels and the shape/angle of the front and closure.

I have a pair of the black Wehrmacht Panzer trousers- good winter,
outdoor pants.
Imagine what a pair of them would cost, outside of reenactment vendors...
Good value.


B
T

 

[Creeping Past]

They are very unique and attractive jackets but I would be afraid of offending some sensibilities. Much better off to wear a repro Russian telogreika, which is one very cool jacket. As Joe Covais used to say in his New Columbia advertising, "Possibly the coolest thing ever produced by a totalitarian regime."

Actually, wearing that Russian kit there is a very real chance of offending anyone aware of, let alone personally affected by, the depravity and death-dealing of the Stalin regime that killed tens of millions. Come on people, read some books!

However, having said that, we're talking about relatively blank garments that most would be hard-pressed to recognise as military these days.

 

[H.Johnson]

And Stalin is once again becoming a popular symbol in modern Russia!

Recent Russian history school text books put forward a very different picture of his period in power to those used thirty years ago...

Actually, wearing that Russian kit there is a very real chance of offending anyone aware of, let alone personally affected by, the depravity and death-dealing of the Stalin regime that killed tens of millions. Come on people, read some books!

 

[Creeping Past]

Yes, that rewriting is unsettling.

There would be a great price to pay indeed if the tens of millions who died under the process still known euphemistically as 'collectivization' became even more forgotten than they already are.

 

[Edward]

Seems to me that some degree of rewriting of history from generation to generation is inevitable. History is never really 'set', as reinterpretation occurs all the time. The latest historical thinking (which I am inclined to believe) would have it that Guy Fawkes was a patsy (much like Oswald), framed by ultra-Protestants who felt that the then-current Protestant king did not persecute Roman Catholics enough.... I'd hate to see Stalin turned into a hero and his evils forgotten, though I would welcome the end of the Cold War era demonisation of him and anyone involved in the Russian Communist Party by less than objective interests here in the West. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the Gravedigger of the Revolution, it's just that oftentimes I feel that by demonising someone like Stalin or even Hitler, we dehumanise them, and in so doing ultimately dull the sense of how terrible were the things for which they were responsible. As opposed to when we remember they were real people, humans who had loved ones and liked nice food and a joke and yet conceived and carried out, or at least ordered, acts of the most extreme evil... much more horrific, to my way of thinking. And there lies the truth and the lesson of history, rather than a contemporary propaganda piece. Anyhoo, I'm veering wildly fftopic: ...

I actually have a Panzerwrap, the washed drill-cotton, oakleaf Camo version, which I presume would originally have been worn on its own as a Summer piece, or in colder weather over the top of the wool? This one:

I bought mine on eBay for £12; I suspect the original owner never wore it. Soldier of Fortune has them at present reduced from £39.99 to £29.99 "while sotcks last". I really like the design - they're a great, sharp cut. I'm quite keen on the wool version myself, in both the grey and the black. Personally, I really can't believe that outside of a re-enactor or other person interested in military history anyone is likely to spot the origin of such a design, worn without insignia. If anything, folks are merely going to assume it to be some form of wool variant of the classic motorcycle design leather jacket a la Schott's Perfecto. To my eyes, they bear something of a resemblence to Aero's Bootlegger model. Some time last year, Rufus posted to another thread about his desire for a Bootlegger with button-fastening front and a B2-style pocket. Seems to me that would'nt look a million miles away from the Panzerwrap above:

Indeed, the only drawback with using one of the wool Panzerwraps as a jacket would, in my mind, be the lack of pockets: I'd love one of those big, B2 style pockets on the front of the woollen version.

FWIW, the only times ever I have been called a Nazi I was wearing a long, db military-style coat (I do have a Wehrmacht one, but it doesn't seem to matter if it is it or not - actually, the leather one draws that sort of comment a lot more.... more thanks to Allo Allo than actual history....) and wide-brimmed fedora. That, and once a British dress jacket (I think Metropolitan Police, either that or Prison Service.... though to be fair it was black, and I had added a couple of Lancer 'death or glory' motifs), tan shirt, black tie....... bondage trousers and a pair of large, snow-boarding style training shoes (Swear brand). Dammit, if the real Nazis had seen me like that, I'd have been one of the first against the wall......

I say go for it, myself.

Be aware that there are 2 different styles- the Wehrmacht and SS Panzer jackets are differently styled. It may appear subtle, but look at the collar/lapels and the shape/angle of the front and closure.

Yip, and - as you rightly point out - this sort of subtlety will be completely lost on the average person!

I have a pair of the black Wehrmacht Panzer trousers- good winter,
outdoor pants.
Imagine what a pair of them would cost, outside of reenactment vendors...
Good value.


B
T

What are the ankles like on those? I've been tempted by a number of repro-Axis uniform trousers before now (Panzer, Kriegsmarine, Luftwaffe....), given that they offer colours that are a bit more easily incorporated into some of my civilian wardrobe than much of the Allied equivalents... The one thing that has made me wary is whether they have ankles that are too cuffed in or otherwise only work with tall boots as opposed to being wearable with regular shoes. Any photos? I'm stumped on this kind of detail with the likes of the SoF site, though to be fair as most of their custom will be folks who want to wear it as part of the uniform with the intended footwear, I suppose that doesn't matter so much to them. Any photos?

 

[avedwards]

Actually, wearing that Russian kit there is a very real chance of offending anyone aware of, let alone personally affected by, the depravity and death-dealing of the Stalin regime that killed tens of millions. Come on people, read some books!

I agree that wearing an NKDV uniform would be foolish. However, if one wears elements of a Russian army uniform, such as an Ushanka hat with a Soviet star on it, I can't see how that should offend as the Russian army wasn't that different from any other. They were soldiers under orders to win a war.

I'd say the same for German uniforms like the one the OP is thinking of. Elements of a regular army uniform are fine, it's when it gets to SS, NKDV and such that it gets tasteless IMHO. We have to remember that it wasn't the regular army that committed the attrocities for the most part, but the secret police that did it in most of these regimes.

Sorry for all the fftopic:. I just don't like the idea that any Russian or German uniforms should be avoided, because if done carefully they will not give people the wrong idea.

 

[BellyTank]

What are the ankles like on those?

They have a gathered-in ankle not suitable for street.
Good for use with ankle boots, in the outdoors.


B
T

 

[Edward]

They have a gathered-in ankle not suitable for street.
Good for use with ankle boots, in the outdoors.


B
T

Thanks. Pity.... I suppose the M-41 field trousers are a better option, then, for regular wear. I was hoping the black Panzer trousers would be too, as I'm not keen on the idea of trying to dye wool without shrinking it.

 

[filfoster]

mea culpa

Actually, wearing that Russian kit there is a very real chance of offending anyone aware of, let alone personally affected by, the depravity and death-dealing of the Stalin regime that killed tens of millions. Come on people, read some books!

However, having said that, we're talking about relatively blank garments that most would be hard-pressed to recognise as military these days.

Not shy on the booklearning-read shelves of them on WW2. No matter how many more millions of souls Uncle Joe sent to the hereafter, (more Soviets than Germans, per Mr. Conquest), the Red Army doesn't have the same onus in the popular mind here that the Wehrmacht conjures. (They were our wartime FRIENDS, after all, Komrade-never mind all our downed bomber crew airmen they kept.) And, it's my wrong guess that the telogreika is less recognizable to most 'uninitiated' citizens. And, it's definitely a more comfy rig here this time of year. I may get one and terrorize the Polish deli.

 

[m000m000]

I have a Panzer wrap, though it's a version made in natural white undyed cotton herringbone (by chen/pirschen). I've always been a fan of trim fit clothing and I really like the look of it, particulary the colloar/lapels - it really is a dapper style. I'll probably be getting a black wool version at some point in the near future too.
While there are buttons/loops for epaulets, if you leave them off no one would be the wiser and think it's a military garment (My sister did ask though if I've been cannibalizing the women's section in the department store because of the fit of the jacket ), especially with how today's fashion has, and still does, cannibalize military garments in terms of features and look.


Also, while this one was an officially issued piece of uniform, I think the whole debacle isn't entirely different from the whole "luftwaffe" leather jacket phenomena, which is another case of period civilian wear gaining interest by becoming a "military" garment through association.


Personally I don't really feel there's any stigma in wearing one - It's not like it's an SS dress uniform coat, which has in itself become a symbol that people will instantly recognize and draw associations with - Few people outside of military or history buffs would ever recognize the jacket for what it is, and thus it can't really carry the same level of social stigma either. And even then, it's still more just a wool jacket with a military background - much like a peacoat. Unless one feels predisposed to doom everything world war 2 and german related as nazi regalia.

Well, that's how I see it. Obviously viewpoints will differ between individuals, especially as people are bound to have different relationships and personal links to the period history.

 

[Gijoe]

Is a cool Jacket!
Which you want to carry in addition ? Black or another piece of army clothing is too much.
I wear a Repro Elite Panzer Trouser for my Adventures,I do not have a problem thereby, that is a mountain trousers from the 30's

 

[ukali1066]

I'm thinking a newsboy cap worn with it....any trouser suggestions guys ?