Removing the Reed?

[feltfan]

Anyone ever remove the reed from a reeded sweatband?
What I mean is, with some reeded sweats, especially if
they are a bit worn (particularly if the metal piece holding
together the reed where the sweat is sewn together in the
back) the reed sticks out and could be pulled out of the
sweatband entirely.

What I'm wondering is:

1) I have a friend with a beat up old Dunlap tyrolean with a
reed that is almost more hanging out than not. Maybe it would
be best for him to slide it out?

2) I just barely have access to the reed in my 50s 3X Stetson
cowboy hat. If I pull it out (assuming it will come out), will the
hat be softer around my head?

This could even be an easier way to make some soft hats
Long Oval, especially if they have some width to them.

I guess one problem might be that the crown would deform a bit?
Not sure what other issues would come up.

Ideas? Experience?

 

[tonyb]

Good questions. Wish I had good answers. I can suppose, though, that a de-reeded sweatband would function about the same as one that never had a reed in the first place. You know, the sweatband would do little if anything to maintain the shape and size of the head opening. Other than that, it's hard to envision what harm could come of it. Unless, of course, there really is something to that "butterfly effect" stuff, in which case, we'll just have to accept full responsibility for that flash flood that will hit Thailand next week.

 

[ADHD librarian]

not quite an answer

I've got a nasty old 'The Arena' which I found by the side of the Stuart Highway 300km from Alice Springs.

Why mention this?
Because it had been de-reeded with a pair of pliers and a hack saw (by the look of it).

It is still a wearable hat and has been my bush hat for about a year now as I've been slowly repairing it.

My point?
It doesn't seem to be a problem. I had to do some work restitching the sweat, but only because whoever did this to the hat was not a hat lover and left some nasty bits of scratchy, hacked, dry leather to poke into the forehead.
if you were careful it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[feltfan]

it's hard to envision what harm could come of it. Unless, of course, there really is something to that "butterfly effect" stuff, in which case, we'll just have to accept full responsibility for that flash flood that will hit Thailand next week.

As long as Sharon Stone doesn't say something about it,
I can take it.

Thanks to ADHD Librarian, too. Good to get another data point- that's
what I'm looking for. Anyone else have a hat
with a missing/removed reed? Anyone else care to speculate
on what that reed is doing for the hat?

 

[ADHD librarian]

more data coming soon

Well, I might have another view for you in about a week. I have just dropped The Arena off at the Adelaide Hatters for a bit of repair work, including a new sweat band.
So it is about to become 'rereeded'
I'll let you know if it makes any difference.

 

[Woodfluter]

Oh man, I am bumping this because I'd like to see answers to Feltfan's questions too!

Let me ask you ADHD, fraught as the question is with all kinds of other distracting condition issues...did you find the rescued Akubra Arena more comfortable without the reed as compared to other non-deconsructed hats? If you are a long oval like me, did it seem to make it conform better?

I'd like to know if the reed is really a good idea, what it is constructed of these days (spring steel I reckon), and whether it helps the hat to confrom to your head somewhow or is an impediment, especially for us long-headed types. Somebody here must know. This is the wellspring of hat knowledge!

- Bill

 

[ADHD librarian]

Head comfort and the dereeded lid

Woodfluter,

The horrible old hat is in fact fantastically comfortable, that said it is a size 61 while I am a 59, so it is a bit larger than I should have. However I suspect it has shrunk at least 1 size. So all I need to do is fold the sweat in half and it is a nice fit. Plus, as I have very thick hair I can go up a size and a half just by growing my hair a little longer. In fact I did go a little wild and woolly recently and that made this the only hat I have which fitted me (another reason I’m having it professionally repaired)

the sweat is a very soft one as I have smothered it with R.M. William Leather Dressing (which I do with most of my hats).

I’m not a long oval so I can’t comment on that side of things, but I can say that the removal of the wire hasn’t caused it to loose shape (despite some very rough treatment being very obvious)

 

[tonyb]

I'd like to know if the reed is really a good idea, what it is constructed of these days (spring steel I reckon), and whether it helps the hat to confrom to your head somewhow or is an impediment, especially for us long-headed types. Somebody here must know. This is the wellspring of hat knowledge!

- Bill

These days they are typically made of transparent plastic stuff, like fishing line, but a heavier gauge.

As to whether they're a good idea ... well, it's a tradeoff, I suppose. I can see how the reed would help maintain the shape of the head opening and perhaps even give it a bit more "definition." (There must be a better word for what I'm trying to get at here.) And it certainly seems that reeded sweatbands are more "doable" by modern hatters, especially by our independent, custom makers and renovators. I've heard that installing unreeded ones requires some sort of equipment that's so hard to come by these days, for whatever reasons -- scarcity? expense? -- that pursuing it just doesn't seem worth the trouble.

Downside? Well, as we see here, it appears that reeds get in the way of a decent fit for some people. And I suppose they do add weight (not much, certainly, but some), and render the hat unfoldable (think those old Borsalinos that were made to fold up) and add another step or three to the manufacturing process (more pieces, you know, what with the reed itself and the "tape" it is wrapped in).

 

[Woodfluter]

These days they are typically made of transparent plastic stuff, like fishing line, but a heavier gauge.

Ummm, I'm not so sure about that. In the three Akubras I have, it is attracted to a strong magnet. Also, it protudes slightly from one of them, and under a hand lens it looks like very skinny spring steel. I've just tested several vintage hats, including a Mallory, 4 Stetsons (one an Open Road), a Borsalino - no magnetic reaction.

I'm left wondering if I should maybe experiment with removing the metal part with pliers, maybe on the Akubra Riverina. Wonder if it would make it conform more easily or whether its contribution is trivial compared to the brim shape.

- Bill

 

[tonyb]

Ummm, I'm not so sure about that. In the three Akubras I have, it is attracted to a strong magnet. Also, it protudes slightly from one of them, and under a hand lens it looks like very skinny spring steel. I've just tested several vintage hats, including a Mallory, 4 Stetsons (one an Open Road), a Borsalino - no magnetic reaction..

- Bill

Note the "typically" and "these days" qualifiers in my post. Akubras may well be exceptional in this regard, and in days gone by reeds were indeed metallic. I can tell you that I have new sweatbands here from four different manufacturers, and all four have reeds made of transparent plastic.

 

[tonyb]

One other advantage to the reeded sweatbands is that they can do more than the unreeded types to keep sweat off the hat body. Or so it has been convincingly (to me, anyway) posited by a hat maker whose views on such matters have proven reliable. If the reeded sweatband is installed in the manner he does it, which is to "flange" or "drum" it (I believe those terms are interchangeable in this context; if they aren't, please correct the record), the sweatband "floats" a bit, rather than sit directly against the inside of the hat's crown. This method involves using a ferrule to connect the ends of the reed and to make that reed (and hence the whole works) a half-inch or so longer at the sweatband's base than at its top, so that a gap is created between the sweatband and the body. It can also be argued that this sort of sweatband installation can make for a more comfortable hat, seeing how the sweatband is given a bit of "springiness."

 

[Art Fawcett]

So many questions!! Sorry feltfan, didn't see this earlier.
First, Tony you are right in many ways as to results, but one thing that hasn't been mentioned is that it gives strength to the stitching holding the leather in.
That said, it shouldn't hurt to pull it out as long as you are aware that it will decrease lifespan in many cases ( not all). It stands to reason that without the reed fit could be improved on hats, but only temporarily, as it will return to it's "memory" shape. Feltfan, in your case, if the reed has puled out of the ferrel, that tells me that the sweat has rotted to the point of replacement and the stitching is soon to follow. It might give you a bit more service life, but not alot.
TonyB, the machine used to sew in unreeded sweats is a Singer 46-100 and I own two of them, neither worth a darn even though they function well. I have yet to be able to sew in a complete sweat without thread breaking somewhere along the line. I had a conversation with an old hatter years back about the machine and i can't write what his response to it was...against Lounge policy on profanity, so suffice it to say that these machines were SO finicky that even when new they required absolute expertice to operate. He hated them!!

 

[Stoney]

I would not remove the reed as it is a beneficial part of the sweatband.

As Tony has described, the reed is used to flare the bottom of the sweatband out. In addition to making the sweatband float away from the felt, this flare also keeps the sweatband stitching from contacting your head.

The shape of the sweatband is determined by the shape of the hat opening and shrinkage of the sweatband, rather than the fact that it has a reed installed.

If you need to long ovalize the sweatband, it is easier to do so by steaming the base of the crown, put the hat on and squeeze the sides if the hat in slightly. Once the felt is dry the hat should fit you properly, provided the diameter is correct for your skull.

 

[feltfan]

Feltfan, in your case, if the reed has puled out of the ferrel, that tells me that the sweat has rotted to the point of replacement and the stitching is soon to follow. It might give you a bit more service life, but not alot.

Thanks Art. My friend's hat probably isn't worth putting in a new
sweatband (and I doubt he'd do that). So I may remove the reed.
It is a Dunlap, but it's a 60s tyrolean... I may experiment on my
3X Stetson... or I may chicken out since it's such a great hat.

Thanks to all.

 

[scottyrocks]

Yes, this an old thread, but I have been debating with myself as to whether or not remove the reed from one of my Akubras.

I have taken to wearing it back on my head. The issue is that because I am 'follically challenged,' it leaves an indentation at the top of my forehead where the weight of the hat rests on my head right where the reed is. I had been thinking that removing the reed might soften up that edge enough to make it more comfortable.

I wouldn't be very distraught if the hat became unwearable even though it's a dozen years old, and in good shape. A Fed IV is easily replaceable.

Any (more) insight?

 

[belfastboy]

Yes, this an old thread, but I have been debating with myself as to whether or not remove the reed from one of my Akubras.

I have taken to wearing it back on my head. The issue is that because I am 'follically challenged,' it leaves an indentation at the top of my forehead where the weight of the hat rests on my head right where the reed is. I had been thinking that removing the reed might soften up that edge enough to make it more comfortable.

I wouldn't be very distraught if the hat became unwearable even though it's a dozen years old, and in good shape. A Fed IV is easily replaceable.

Any (more) insight?

The purpose of the reed is to roll out that top edge of the sweat so the reed does not sit directly on the skin. A properly drummed sweat is conical in shape so it acts more as a nest rather than a hard distinct line. It is this nesting that helps the hat feel comfortable while sitting on the head. In a properly placed sweat the reed area sits slightly outboard the brim break of the felt. If the reed is causing irritation it would seem the sweat is placed a bit too low inside the felt. Once the sweat is sewn into the hat it is set so two things: I don't see why you couldn't remove it without substantively altering the hat. But I also don't see what you would gain in the doing.

 

[dkstott]

I've pulled the metal wire out of every one of my akubra hats. They conform to my head much better without the wire.

 

[belfastboy]

I've pulled the metal wire out of every one of my akubra hats. They conform to my head much better without the wire.

Does Akubra actually use wire or is it the plastic filament found in most modern hats?

 

[dkstott]

3 style masters and a Banjo Patterson all had wire inside the reed.

 

[belfastboy]

3 style masters and a Banjo Patterson all had wire inside the reed.

New information for me, thank you. I have never fully refurbished an Akubra so have never had cause to tear one down.