Regular Oval vs Long Oval

[Ken David]

I'm thinking we have too much time on our hands, Ken. Yeah, I have experimented with the ellipse perimeter formulas as well. The problem is that nobody's head is shaped like that, but is always more egg-shaped. Those calculations aren't accurate enough for us. You have analyzed this issue well!!

Yes we do! It must be the engineer in me that wants to analyze these things on an emperical level. I made a sketch of my head and yes very close to an oval but indeed a little egg shaped as you pointed out. I am going to maybe work on one of my many hobbies which is woodworking and make a custom band block/stretcher to fit my head, maybe I can find the tine this weekend none the less. This hat hobby is very interesting and there is much more to learn!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Redfokker]

I don't math much...that is why I'm a Historian. All I know is a 7 1/4 LO is just perfect. A non LO is reformed by a band block I made from my noggin pattern from Mike at NW Hats. I have made a couple in wood and one in hard insulation foam. They make my hats fit like a custom.

 

[RJR]

Yes we do! It must be the engineer in me that wants to analyze these things on an emperical level. I made a sketch of my head and yes very close to an oval but indeed a little egg shaped as you pointed out. I am going to maybe work on one of my many hobbies which is woodworking and make a custom band block/stretcher to fit my head, maybe I can find the tine this weekend none the less. This hat hobby is very interesting and there is much more to learn!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Indeed .

 

[groovemachine]

What constitutes a regular oval vs long oval? Is it a certain proportion? I can't find real measurements discussed anywhere, but feel free to post a link if this info. already exists somewhere.

My head seems to be 20.5 cm long by 15.5 cm wide. My head circumference seems to be about a 58.5. I have a couple Stetsons that are size 59 and fit fine with just a bit of foam in the back, so if I'm shopping "off the shelf" I'm generally looking at 59s.

 

[Mighty44]

What constitutes a regular oval vs long oval? Is it a certain proportion? I can't find real measurements discussed anywhere, but feel free to post a link if this info. already exists somewhere.

My head seems to be 20.5 cm long by 15.5 cm wide. My head circumference seems to be about a 58.5. I have a couple Stetsons that are size 59 and fit fine with just a bit of foam in the back, so if I'm shopping "off the shelf" I'm generally looking at 59s.

I have regular and long oval hats and have never noticed much difference—they all eventually shape to my head. Perhaps the shape of my head allows me to be less picky but I’ve never let the LO designation inform my decision of whether or not to buy a hat.

 

[StoryPNW]

Long oval hats definitely seem to fit my head better, regular oval are tight front and back on my head and tend to make the side of the brim curl up more. My experience is limited but it seems to make a difference for me.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I have regular and long oval hats and have never noticed much difference—they all eventually shape to my head. Perhaps the shape of my head allows me to be less picky but I’ve never let the LO designation inform my decision of whether or not to buy a hat.

It would be nice to know the actual ratio of length vs width.

 

[belfastboy]

I have regular and long oval hats and have never noticed much difference—they all eventually shape to my head. Perhaps the shape of my head allows me to be less picky but I’ve never let the LO designation inform my decision of whether or not to buy a hat.

My experience is that the long versus regular oval comes more into play the stiffer the hat. When sizing a western/stiff hat I have to nail the fit and shape because the hat is not likely to mould to your head. The 95gram FEPSA felts with a soft roan leather sweat will mould to your head.

 

[belfastboy]

What constitutes a regular oval vs long oval? Is it a certain proportion? I can't find real measurements discussed anywhere, but feel free to post a link if this info. already exists somewhere.

My head seems to be 20.5 cm long by 15.5 cm wide. My head circumference seems to be about a 58.5. I have a couple Stetsons that are size 59 and fit fine with just a bit of foam in the back, so if I'm shopping "off the shelf" I'm generally looking at 59s.

It is the shape of your head that determines long or regular oval. The long oval is of course a little longer and thus narrower along the sides. Long Ovals are somewhat stretched more north to south. If a true long oval wears a true regular oval it is likely to be a bit tight at the forehead and there will be a gap at the temples. But in my experience we exist along a continuum and most of us are somewhere along that continuum and not many at either extreme end.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

My experience is that the long versus regular oval comes more into play the stiffer the hat. When sizing a western/stiff hat I have to nail the fit and shape because the hat is not likely to mould to your head. The 95gram FEPSA felts with a soft roan leather sweat will mould to your head.

Being a long oval, I have problems with both firmer thicker felt and thin light felt. The western felt is too firm to really conform to my head shape. The thin light felt molds to the shape of my head, but the change in tensioning causes the brim, and occasionally the crown, to distort. To be honest, many long oval hats are not long enough, but extra long oval hats and blocks don’t grown on trees.

 

[Mighty44]

Being a long oval, I have problems with both firmer thicker felt and thin light felt. The western felt is too firm to really conform to my head shape. The thin light felt molds to the shape of my head, but the change in tensioning causes the brim, and occasionally the crown, to distort. To be honest, many long oval hats are not long enough, but extra long oval hats and blocks don’t grown on trees.

Yes—I do share your experiences Brent and @StoryPNW with hats fitting tighter front and back and flimsy brims getting wonky from tension. So I probably am a LO as well, but most hats my size fit me fine and I would never pass on a hat because it wasn’t LO since they are few and far between.

 

[StoryPNW]

Yes—I do share your experiences Brent and @StoryPNW with hats fitting tighter front and back and flimsy brims getting wonky from tension. So I probably am a LO as well, but most hats my size fit me fine and I would never pass on a hat because it wasn’t LO since they are few and far between.

Aside from my customs, I only own 1 factory long oval hat. I haven't passed on hats I really like for not being long oval, but I will pay a little extra for LO.

 

[hambone71]

Yes—I do share your experiences Brent and @StoryPNW with hats fitting tighter front and back and flimsy brims getting wonky from tension. So I probably am a LO as well, but most hats my size fit me fine and I would never pass on a hat because it wasn’t LO since they are few and far between.

Aside from my customs, I only own 1 factory long oval hat. I haven't passed on hats I really like for not being long oval, but I will pay a little extra for LO.

My sentiments, exactly. I won't pass on a regular oval if I want the hat but I actively search for long oval. I recently bought a vintage stratoliner in great condition just because it was my size in long oval. I wasn't looking to buy but I couldn't pass it up because they don't come around too often. That hat just falls perfectly right into place on my head.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I’ve found that if I leave a band block in the hat for a week or so and steam it most every day (sometimes a few times a day) I can get the sweatband to take on the long oval shape. Next I re-flange the brim with the band block still in place. I’ll usually flange it twice over several hours. I’ll let it set for a couple days and. I end up with a standard oval hat that is now long oval and will maintain its shape. Sometimes an overnight session with the band block, and a bit of steam, is needed on a recalcitrant hat.

 

[Jauntyone]

Here is a link to a thread a while back:
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/measuring-for-long-oval.51741/

"You can measure the circumference with a tailor's measure and then convert that number. Google hat sizing. The European have it right sizing the hat by circumference in Centimeters, no confusion. The only other problem is head shape. Round oval. oval, long oval, extra long oval. To determine that you'll need a set of outside calipers and this . . .
"Round oval is 5/8 inch longer than it is wide
"Regular oval is 1 3/8 inches longer than it is wide
"Long oval is 2 1/8 inches longer than it is wide
"X-Long oval is 2 7/8 inches longer than it is wide
"XX-Long oval is 3 5/8 inches longer than it is wide
"XXX-Long oval is 4 3/8 inches longer than it is wide."

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Here is a link to a thread a while back:
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/measuring-for-long-oval.51741/

"You can measure the circumference with a tailor's measure and then convert that number. Google hat sizing. The European have it right sizing the hat by circumference in Centimeters, no confusion. The only other problem is head shape. Round oval. oval, long oval, extra long oval. To determine that you'll need a set of outside calipers and this . . .
"Round oval is 5/8 inch longer than it is wide
"Regular oval is 1 3/8 inches longer than it is wide
"Long oval is 2 1/8 inches longer than it is wide
"X-Long oval is 2 7/8 inches longer than it is wide
"XX-Long oval is 3 5/8 inches longer than it is wide
"XXX-Long oval is 4 3/8 inches longer than it is wide."

This doesn’t sound right to me. It can’t be a fixed number (eg., 2 ⅞” longer than it is wide). The number for a hat in size 6 ⅝ would have have to be less than a hat in size 8 ¼. A ratio makes sense, but not a fixed number. Otherwise, the smaller the size the more extreme the oval is and just the opposite the larger the hat size.

 

[Jauntyone]

Yes, the original poster didn't say what size this was for. If it was for a specific size, say 7 1/4, we could figure out a ratio. Anybody have two of the same hatblock in the same size but different ovals to measure? But then, each hatblock manufacturer might use his own formula, kind of like the X's in felt quality.

 

[One Drop]

I've pulled the Akubra hats I've bought new into LO shape, over my knee, gently but firmly. Saves the time it takes for them to eventually conform. I'll adjust the brim afterwards if needed.

My Borsalinos are soft and conform automatically, the brims tend to very slightly curl upwards due to this, not a problem as I wear them that way anyway.

I've noticed these day that most hat companies don't offer off the shelf LO options, except for Shantung or similar straws, I guess this makes sense as they can't be steamed or pulled into shape and won't eventually conform either.

I have no hands on experience with Resistols, but have heard their standard shape tends to be closer to LO than regular oval, can anyone here confirm that ? Do their hats really self-conform as advertised, or at least more so than Western felts hats from other brands ?

 

[hatsRme]

This doesn’t sound right to me. It can’t be a fixed number (eg., 2 ⅞” longer than it is wide). The number for a hat in size 6 ⅝ would have have to be less than a hat in size 8 ¼. A ratio makes sense, but not a fixed number. Otherwise, the smaller the size the more extreme the oval is and just the opposite the larger the hat size.

Sorry to be late for this party, Brent. Some years back I measured and calculated the specific ratios applied for a Standard oval, Long oval, XLO, and XXLO. It worked perfectly regardless of size. Now to find those notes….

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Sorry to be late for this party, Brent. Some years back I measured and calculated the specific ratios applied for a Standard oval, Long oval, XLO, and XXLO. It worked perfectly regardless of size. Now to find those notes….

That sounds about right, Charlie. When you find it I’ll probably have forgotten about why we were curious.