Redskin B3 Hides across brands?

[Xopher]

I've been kicking around the idea of a redskin B3 as a present to myself after I pay off my medical bills. I'd like one as accurate as possible. My question is, are the redskin shearling hides from Goodwear the same hides used by Aero? If so Id save the 600 bucks and go Aero. How historically accurate are those redskin Hides? Also I really like the redskin hides of older Eastman jackets, for some reason they just look more "rich" than the new broken grain, why is that? Where were the old Eastman hides from and why did they switch to the broken grain, is that more accurate now? Or should I just save myself the time and money and hope to dig up a used ELC Roughwear in my size. thoughts?

 

[Cooper A-2]

My little experience is that as per now the ELC and the GW RS are the best possible and most accurates ones available on the market.
There was a thread on this a few months ago by Awastland and as far as I can recall its the same bottom line.

 

[aswatland]

Yes, ELC make the most accurate redskin B-3s. I have their mixed batch Perry and the redskins are identical to original 1941 skins having compared them with an original in my collection. I can't talk about GW as I have not owned one of John's B-3s.

 

[rocketeer]

'Redskin' I think this term came about only through the modern collector market and was never an old term, by old I mean no older than 30 years but someone please correct me if I am wrong.
From my old collecting days of the 80s to the 90s, the very first Eastman B3 redskin jackets looked fantastic, a dead ringer for the real thing, but later models went down hill a little. My 15 year old jacket is pretty accurate from when I had an original to compare to, especially the details, but the finish is nothing like original wartime issue stuff, though others will dispute this.
I just about wore my Eastman to death, it has so many bald spots in all the right places though, its probably only worth a couple of hundred quid as it is. And no I don't wish to sell it as £200 would possibly buy me just the arms of a new one so it's tough luck
(I'd post some pics but photo bucket ain't working at the moment)

 

[Xopher]

'Redskin' I think this term came about only through the modern collector market and was never an old term, by old I mean no older than 30 years but someone please correct me if I am wrong.
From my old collecting days of the 80s to the 90s, the very first Eastman B3 redskin jackets looked fantastic, a dead ringer for the real thing, but later models went down hill a little. My 15 year old jacket is pretty accurate from when I had an original to compare to, especially the details, but the finish is nothing like original wartime issue stuff, though others will dispute this.
I just about wore my Eastman to death, it has so many bald spots in all the right places though, its probably only worth a couple of hundred quid as it is. And no I don't wish to sell it as £200 would possibly buy me just the arms of a new one so it's tough luck
(I'd post some pics but photo bucket ain't working at the moment)

Ahhhh man if love to see photos!

 

[rocketeer]

Ahhhh man if love to see photos!

I'll give it a go once the site is up and running again. They say maintenance.
J

 

[rocketeer]

There ya go, these pics were taken around 4 years ago so as I tend to lounge around in this the wear points have got worse. The cuffs as well have edge wear in there natural position (2nd pic) they are also starting to wear at the edges in the rolled position(1st pic). A lot of the wear points inside and out are now showing baldy spots such as the wind flap (3rd pic).
As you can see it is much to clean to look anything like a WWII issue jacket but I get enjoyment from wearing it, where as if I were worried about loosing any resale value and 'baby' it I am sure I would not have bought it in the first place. I'm not advocating wearing the things working on a car(except maybe a D1 ) but don't be scared to enjoy the things in all weathers. You see an awful lot of these secondhand on the dreaded 'bay' described as "Hardly worn" "As New" "Looked after" etc. To be honest, this says to me this was not really the jacket for them so grab one and wear it till it falls to bits if you have enough years in you

Cost was probably around £475 15 years ago. Pushing a grand now

 

[Cooper A-2]

Please show the label and zipper.
thx

 

[Stand By]

I've been kicking around the idea of a redskin B3 as a present to myself after I pay off my medical bills. I'd like one as accurate as possible. My question is, are the redskin shearling hides from Goodwear the same hides used by Aero? If so Id save the 600 bucks and go Aero. How historically accurate are those redskin Hides? Also I really like the redskin hides of older Eastman jackets, for some reason they just look more "rich" than the new broken grain, why is that? Where were the old Eastman hides from and why did they switch to the broken grain, is that more accurate now? Or should I just save myself the time and money and hope to dig up a used ELC Roughwear in my size. thoughts?

Hi Xopher,
I cannot speak as to how authentic Goodwear or Aero are with their Redskin leathers as I have had no experience with them - but as someone who has both an ELC RW B-6 and B-3 from 2006/7, yes, the leathers were different back then as they were made of a rich, smooth grain leather and were sold exactly like the originals were issued to the crews; namely looking fresh from the original factory. It totally appealed to me and I liked that it was then on the owner to wear it and break it in and acquire the aged-look we all like - naturally and over time.
But later, ELC switched to the Broken Grain type we see today.
When it first came out, as someone who loved his ELC RW B-3, I couldn't stand it. I always felt that they had switched to that style as a way to visually differentiate their brand from others and that much I understood - as the other then-companies (RMNZ, Aero, Buzz Ricksons etc) all continued to produce their jackets with the " new-as-issued" look. And the "aged" look caters to a distinctly different demographic in the customer base; namely someone who wants that certain "aged" WW2 look immediately and with no time or effort on their part. And I understand that and can appreciate the business sense in it. But to me, back then, the new style looked fake and, where the leather ought to imply "aged" to a customer like me, to me it merely said "damaged" and had lost all its former richness - the leather looked dried out (it reminded me of the dry tissue paper that we used to use to make collages at school. Remember that? I'd totally forgotten about that - until I saw the hides and tried to think what it was they reminded me of). How they achieved that look I cannot say. Heat? Chemicals? I've no idea, but it just suggested something ... harsh ... to me.
But over the years, I saw them improve slowly but steadily with each year (so clearly there has been an on-going pursuit of perfecting the process) - and now I think they are at the point that ELC has emulated the vintage look of originals very admirably (I dare say to perfection, judging by their new release photos) and I'd be happy to own a new B-3 from them again. And for someone who wants that look, they can have it (at a price) - and they don't have to be rained or sleeted or snowed upon once to get it!
But me, I still think that there's no substitute for the personal satisfaction of getting that look than to wear the jacket over the years as often as possible and in as much inclement weather as possible too. But clearly the "aged" leathers have worked and been a success for ELC (and good for them), so what do I know?!

 

[Cooper A-2]

thx for the imput...
Just my 1 cent imput over the " older times = better times".
I traded a lot of original WW2 items and Luftwaffe jackets with Gary in person...early 90 ties...
He always paid with Irvin' ,A-2's and B-3's
I agree that a few years back hides were not as good as nowadays...but since mid 2000's...
they are the finest ever...you bath them ( or not) , you oil them, you wear them...you cannot make the difference anymore if compared to ww2 jackets...
I am not the only one of this opinion...just reads the experst comments on A-2's B-3's and other jackets..
Just to mention it.
Thx!

 

[Xopher]

Ahhhh man that jacket looks so damn cool! I love when they look lived in and I hate when people fake it with that pre aged junk. Id save for a mixed batch Eastmsn B3 if it werent for that time worn crap they comes standard. I just got an ELC B-6 Standard last year and I wear that thing to death. it's just starting to get some of that beloved surface wear. My motto is to treat it like it's just another jacket and pay no mind the 1300 bucks it rocked me to get it. I want a Redskin B3 something fierce now too but I can't justify another round on the credit card. I'm hoping a nice used one pops up in my size for a reasonable price.

 

[Cooper A-2]

Mybe in spring 2017, one of my ELC B-3 will go...

 

[Xopher]

Mybe in spring 2017, one of my ELC B-3 will go...

I'd certainly be interested. Give me a jingle if you find yourself wanting to send it to a new home.

 

[Cooper A-2]

Sure will do...Start putting some fun tickets in the petty box.

 

[rocketeer]

Please show the label and zipper.
thx

I don't have any photo's of those loaded. Have a look at the Eastman's site, I don't think they have changed

 

[Cooper A-2]

Thx.
from my first ELC Redskin and the actual....they changed.