Rebel with a tie on

[Serial Hero]

I disagree. There are no true rebels against the norm and conformity today, because there really is no norm. You can wear just about anything you want -- including a suit and tie -- and no one is going to socially castrate you for it, especially in the big city. This wasn't the case fifty+ years ago ... and it isn't the case in many parts of the world.
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I agree. At least in AZ nobody cares how you dress, within reason (no shirt, no shoes, no service). I see the threads on here about people making snide comments about fedoras, or even loungers getting attacked. But here it just doesn't happen. In two years of fedora wearing I've only ever had three comments, all of them, "Nice hat".

I think the old stigma still holds; corporate big business types and government are still referred to as "suits".

The building I work in, suit and tie is the norm, almost the rule. There was an article in the paper a couple of months ago how even casual Friday is going the way of the Dodo.

As for the article though, I think the photo idea works. Even though the suit is standard for the office, on the street, or at the mall (I love the smell of commerce in the morning) every single guy is wearing a t-shirt and cargo shorts, like a bunch of little clone troopers.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

We are pissing off the guy in jeans and the guy in the bad looking suit and tie because no matter how much money they spend they still can't look as well put together.

We're not pissing off those guys who don't even see that our suits fit better than theirs do, and that our armholes are higher. Most suit-wearing men are oblivious to these details.

Instead, we're walking around feeling good about ourselves. Which is fine, as long as we don't do it at others' expense by comparing ourselves to them and gloating about it. (Incidentally, I'm not saying that you yourself do this, Matt.)


Frankly, I don't care if a perfect stranger dresses badly; all I care about is dressing myself well. Of course, it would be nice if my wedding guests had all been well-dressed too, but that's the way the cookie crumbles ...

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[Matt Deckard]

I care that people are ignorant to how well a jacket can fit.... to how well the vintage jackets can fit.

Though this hasn't to do with rebellion.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I talked to my Friend about a layout for Classic Style magazine that would show a man in a suit and tie and hat surrounded by onlookers wearing everyday street clothes of today such as like khakis and jeans and t-shirts and polo shirts and the odd punk here and there.

Funny coincidence ... when MissQueenie and I did that fashion shoot for RedShoesGirl, she had us walk across a crowded Saturday afternoon street in downtown Pasadena -- right in the middle of babystrollers, neo-punks, and generation Gap people. We stood out in our '30s garb, yet no one did a double take. In fact, RedShoesGirl had to ask a guy in a t-shirt and jeans to act as if he were staring at us! This very dressed-down man took a look at us and said, "Are you sure you want me in the photo?"


I'll ask RedShoesGirl to post the pictures here.

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[Maj.Nick Danger]

Just as I had thought. Suits,... that is, suits from the 20th century to the present, just look like suits to the average person. Most people don't really notice the difference between, say, a 1930's suit and a suit made in 2006.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

They might detect that something is different about the "old school" suit, but they probably wouldn't be able to put their finger on it. Maybe some would think of "Al Capone". Most folks don't care either way.

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[happyfilmluvguy]

Now a days, sport coats are getting a lot of popularity, thanks to some well known and celebrated people I would guess. To me, let them dress the way they want, as long as they are happy with it. If they aren't happy with it, well....let them find their real side. So many look as suits, or at least well mannered clothing as for special occasions, not day wear.

Even though the office job requires at least a shirt and tie, once they leave that office, woosh! Off goes the tie, off goes the nice shirt, on goes the jeans and on goes the t shirt. They might see no reason of continuing to wear that tie and shirt, or they feel more comfortable without it. Out of work, out of work clothes, which is how any job in any decade is like. You don't think workers at the mill or construction wore those clothes on an off day did you? Maybe so, it depends on what kind of person they are. I think rebelling to a more dignified appearance is not on a person's mind, especially a young person's mind. They see, they like, they buy. It doesn't matter if it's a tie or a t shirt.

Look at major areas, like what Marc had said, in Pasadena, they were surrounded by casual clothing. That is the same reason why everyone else wears the same idea. The 1940's, surrounded by suits I imagine. So....you get a suit too, blend in to the crowd. Rebelling depends on the reason. I myself would say I am rebelling to todays casual dress because I feel more dignified and have respect for myself. I want to make a good impression you could say. If I'm not wearing a suit, it's a button down shirt, or a well fitted sweater. That's me.

Now most everyone just slips something on. They have one pair of jeans, they're going to get another because they wear that one pair, so they think they need another. If those pair of jeans were dress pants, they'd get more dress pants to match with the one pair. You are comforming if you have reason to. You are rebelling if you have reason to. Each one is mixed.

 

[Lady Day]

I think, to make the ad, or idea more concencing was to have the fella, dressed in suit and tie, with a lady on his arm, dressed in a nice skirt (knee length) with a sweater and a hat. Those two together, would cause a stop and stare moment, hence depicting the odd man out point. Rebels of vintage dress as such.


LD

 

[Mr. Lucky]

Okay, my two-cents. Back in the early 80's, when punk and "New Wave" were THE fashion of the day, I wore chino's, blazers, button shirts, Chuck Taylors or beat up wingtips and (you guessed it), a Fedora. BUT, I hung with punks, and new wavers, and preps, and jocks and went where they were without a thought - I didn't care. Wherever I went, I was me.

Now, some twenty-too-many years later, what do I wear? Just about the same thing. And, yes, I still fluctuate between social and cultural strata - corporate and artisitic.

So what's my point? My point is the 'Rebel' is as the rebel always has been - they are what they are and they don't give a damn what anyone thinks. They move through the world not cowtowing to societal norms and stylistic prescriptions.

Now, am I saying that I am a rebel? I'd like to think so; but wouldn't we all! But the reality of the situation is that I am what I am and I like it! Always have been - hopefully always will be. If you're comfortable in suits, great! If you're comfortable in a purple mohawk, far out! As long as it's a sincere sense of style that reflects who you are what you believe - more the power to you!

Rebellion, I'd like to think, is being true to yourself and your beliefs and your own personal code. That's what I've tried to do - failing much more than succeeding, but trying nonetheless. And I guess, I hope, that's enough.

 

[Benny Holiday]

Rebels still dressed sharp

When the bodgies here were hanging around the streets making nuisances of themselves in the late 40's and through the 50's, they wore their black leather jackets, jeans or chinos and motorcycle boots, but when they went to a dance, or to the movies with a girl, they donned the zoot suit and, later, the modified drape clothes that became the flashy garb associated with the Rockabilly/Rock'n'Roll look: colourful shirts, flecked sportscoats, polished two-tone shoes and sharply-creased pegged pants.

Being well-dressed, with their hair combed just right and their clothes neat and tidy, was important to the bodgies. While in the 50's it might not have been the same conservative look their fathers and uncles wore, in the latter part of the 40's and the early part of the following decade, pre-Rock'n'roll, the bodgies followed the sharp look of Hollywood trends (think Kevin Spacey's smooth attire as Jack Vincennes in LA Confidential) and still prided themselves on looking well-groomed and smart while they carried out their social rebellion.

Sometimes, I feel conservative and don a more sombre vintage suit, and other times I feel like a bit of a flash character or a rebel, and opt for the zoot suit or one of my more rakish sportscoat and slacks combinations. I suppose the answer, a' la The Wild One, is "What are you rebelling against?" Society's contemporary slovenliness? Okay, you're a rebel. Social ideas, morals, ettiquiettes, norms? That's a much more complex issue to broach.

 

[flat-top]

Benny Holiday is correct! In the juvenile delinquent classic "City Across the River" the kids dressed like thugs in the day, but at night wore sharp suits and ties!

 

[herringbonekid]

i don't wear 30s-50s clothes to rebel against society's casually dressed norm. i wear them because i like them and i feel comfortable in them. if i wanted to stand out as a rebel i think i'd have failed. a victorian outfit with top hat and cane would be much more attention getting for any aspiring in-your-face rebel.

 

[scotrace]

I think, to make the ad, or idea more concencing was to have the fella, dressed in suit and tie, with a lady on his arm, dressed in a nice skirt (knee length) with a sweater and a hat. Those two together, would cause a stop and stare moment, hence depicting the odd man out point. Rebels of vintage dress as such. LD

We're thinking along the same lines again.

If Classic Style is to make a point, and define itself -- get a conversation going (as is needed in a startup publication), this is the kind of statement you want to make.
I see men in suits often. It's still the norm for business people and government types, the legal profession, and anywhere else for people who want to be taken seriously, from Bullfrog, ND to Moscow. But to wear the suit (or skirt) in a way that says I have classic style, is an entirely different playing field. A field that Classic Style will be defining for its readership -- won't it?




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[jake_fink]

"Rebellion" became a commodity like any other in the 60s.

Real rebellion has very little to do with clothes and everything to do with attitude. What we're talking about are trends, those who conform to fashion trends and those who buck them. Trend-bucking is usually in itself part of a micro-trend (jeans and leather in the 50s, or long hair in '63) which may at some later date become the dominant trend.

I started wearing a suit into the classroom because suits still signify authority and professionalism. I'm one of only a handful of professors who does wear a suit and/or tie, so I am bucking a trend, but there is absolutely nothing rebellious about it.

Believe me. I know rebellion.

 

[Paisley]

On the street in a big city, I don't think there is any normal. I've seen drag queens walk down the street in Denver without getting a second look.

It's in specific environments that have a normal that can be rebelled against. We are having a recruiting blitz here in the office today. It's a CPA firm. Rebellion would be a woman in a peach suit or a man in a tweed suit or a wild tie. Jeans and a t-shirt would just be clueless. But why would anyone wear rebellious clothes to an interview for a job they want? And is there any rebellion in an environment where you are free to leave?

 

[Viola]

What's rebellious about a peach suit for a woman at a CPA firm? I don't get it; I see women in suits in all sorts of colors and as long as its cut nicely I've never heard someone saying "can you imagine wearing PEACH to the office?"

Now a MAN in a peach suit...that would be a very brave man.

Viola

 

[jake_fink]

What's rebellious about a peach suit for a woman at a CPA firm? I don't get it; I see women in suits in all sorts of colors and as long as its cut nicely I've never heard someone saying "can you imagine wearing PEACH to the office?"

Now a MAN in a peach suit...that would be a very brave man.

Viola

Used to be that just eating a peach was daring.

 

[Paisley]

What's rebellious about a peach suit for a woman at a CPA firm? I don't get it; I see women in suits in all sorts of colors and as long as its cut nicely I've never heard someone saying "can you imagine wearing PEACH to the office?"

Now a MAN in a peach suit...that would be a very brave man.

Viola

They just don't wear pastels around here. The young women wear those god-awful androgenous black pant suits. The more senior women wear mostly men's suiting colors if they want to be taken seriously. I guess when you're up against the IRS or SEC or telling a client you can't ethically do what they want you to do, you can't come across as soft and delicate.

 

[Hemingway Jones]

Used to be that just eating a peach was daring.

Excellent reference. 2 points for "Eclectic Wit" for you.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Now a MAN in a peach suit...that would be a very brave man.

Or a "gentleman of leisure" ...

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