Raw Edge Damage

[Spellflower]

We all have our edge preferences for aesthetic reasons, but pragmatically I think few would argue that a Cavanagh edge is the most durable, and a raw edge is the most vulnerable to damage. But how vulnerable is a raw edge, really? Has anyone had a raw edge tear or fray? How likely an occurrence is this?

 

[metropd]

I have never had a problem with raw edges other than they really do not like water, so they have to be consistently steamed or blocked back into shape after getting wet.

I have never had a raw edge tear or fray.

 

[mtechthang]

My limited experience

We all have our edge preferences for aesthetic reasons, but pragmatically I think few would argue that a Cavanagh edge is the most durable, and a raw edge is the most vulnerable to damage. But how vulnerable is a raw edge, really? Has anyone had a raw edge tear or fray? How likely an occurrence is this?

Just a data point but I prefer raw to bound edges except on dress hats. I have a few of both (thus a smallish data point). My most frequently worn hats and some worn for quite rough use (generally pinch crown and wider brimmed) are raw and I've never had any "issues" that couldn't be touched up with a fine sandpaper. But they are usually stiffish felts that might better fit with "cowboy" (gasp!) than fedora. I have found that I tend to cut down truly wide brims. Unless you live on the equator they don't provide much more sun protection and are way more likely to catch or bump into things!!

I suspect the only truly good answer to this though is going to come from someone like Art or Fedora or other professional on the list who've seen the "best" we can do in terms of hat abuse!!

 

[feltfan]

Are you thinking of having the Borsalino's edge bound?
Just my opinion, but they seem lighter without the binding
in this style. The lines are better. And hey, that edge
is at least 50 years old and still looks sharp. What do you
plan to do to it?

BTW, I'd say a bound edge is more durable than a Cavanagh
because you can replace it and it looks like new! I have at least
a couple of very worn Cavanagh-style edges.

 

[tonyb]

What feltfan said.

I, too, have come across many a quite-worn Cav-edge hat. Those edges can indeed show wear, after all those years of being handled by the brim.

As to the raw edge -- it can help make for a crisp, clean, uncluttered overall look to the hat. Lots of fine, fine "Golden Era" hats came with raw edges, so it isn't as though they were necessarily a sign of a lesser hat. One edge treatment I find quite desirable is what at first glance might seem a raw edge, but closer examination discloses a row or two of body-colored stitching a small fraction of an inch in from the edge. Stetson Playboys had that.

My wholly anecdotal observations, but still ...

 

[Atterbury Dodd]

I have had one raw edge that started ripping on the brim. It was made of beaver, but it was also a Resistol. The felt didn't really seem that great, so a raw edge might not be bad with quality felt. All the same, I like a welt or bound brim.

 

[Spellflower]

Feltfan, it was the Borsalino that got me thinking about raw edges. I like the look of a raw edge just fine, but I was just concerned about durability. I want to be able to wear this hat for years without worrying about damaging it. When I saw Atterbury Dodd's post about welted edges, stating that he'd had a raw edge rip, I got worried and wondered if maybe I should bind it while it was already in the shop. Before doing anything rash I figured I'd ask if anyone else had had this experience.

Atterbury, I have never heard bad things about Resistol. Was this a cowboy hat or a fedora? How did the rip start? How used was it?

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

Raw Edge Fan

Yeah, I saw that post also about a ripped raw edge. I was somewhat surprised to read that as I've had several raw edge brims put up with tremendous wear with no ill effects. I like all styles mentioned and have all in my collection but I'll always have a preference for truly vintage raw edges.

Gene

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I have an extremely old Borsalino (probably late 'teens) that has a bit of damage to the raw edge. But i think it's where an insect has taken a chunk out. I love the clean line of a raw edge.

What is this? It has a Mallory liner, but a G. B. Borsalino sweatband. Help me!

4.75" crown and 2.5" brim. A little dirty. Wind string still attached (i found it tucked under the 2.125" ribbon

Mallory Liner:

Borsalino sweatband:

Some sort of cork around the very front of the sweatband:

And here's the stickers. $10 back in the day. numbers are 12591 and 17/35. The two words appear to be aloe and Nera.

bk

 

[Mike Hammered]

I like raw edges on fedoras. Binding around the brim has always looked cheap and weak to me, like the hat was unable to stand on its own and needed something to hold it together.

But that's just for my head. You do what you want.

 

[NonEntity]

While I've never had a Cav edge, I have hats with raw, bound, over- and under-welt brims.

First, let me say that I take extraordinarily good care of everything I own, hats included, but I do keep them forever and put them through all manner of weather and human activity. All my hats are relatively high quality, except for a wool felt Dorfman Pacific.

In my nearly 40 years of experience with hats, the clear brim edge endurance winner is the raw edge. Bound and under and over welts all have stitching, which will eventually break and unravel. The bound edge is most likely to do that because, with thousands of times of handling, the fabric shifts ever so slightly and tugs at the stitching. Of course, you can always re-stitch and even replace the binding, but then you don't have an all-original hat anymore.

The raw edge is less susceptical to damage simply because there is less to go awry. Naturally, if you really try, you can damage it, but that's true of any hat no matter what kind of brim edge it has. The bound edge is a styling variation, not a protective feature.

 

[Spellflower]

Boy, that's a big reassurance, NonEntity! I guess I really had it backwards, but hey, that's how you learn, right?

 

[Atterbury Dodd]

Atterbury, I have never heard bad things about Resistol. Was this a cowboy hat or a fedora? How did the rip start? How used was it?

The Resistol was originally a cowboy hat which I transformed into a porkpie .

As far as to how it ripped, I used to wear it every day for about two years, and after a while the spot that was handled the most on the brim started to tear, from being handled to much I guess (all of that subtle bending and creasing over time?).

My brother also had a raw edge with the same problem. I had to cut the brim down for him. However, it was also a Resistol, and both were given to us by the same friend, both had probably also been in an attic for years. Perhaps it damaged the felt? I don't know, but it was a bad experience.

I have had better hats with ribbon on the edge that I used to wear quite a bit, and they have never had a problem. One of them is from the 50's and was used before I had it. My Dad also had an old Dobbs Fedora(incidentally given to us by the same nice old man, and doubtless from the same attic as the Resistols) and it had a felted welt edge. Never a problem there either, so I don't know if the attic did damage the felt or not.

The answer is probably that Resistol ain't what it used to be.

 

[Spellflower]

I believe Resistol quit the dress hat business some years back and focussed exclusively on cowboy hats. I've never heard anything bad about their fedoras, but it could be that they put out some lower quality cowboy hats, and yours might be one of those? [huh] Experts, please chime in.

 

[Atterbury Dodd]

Yes, I guess that must be the answer. I liked the hat, but compared to my 1930's Stetson homburg, my 50's Stetson western with homburg crown, and the old Dobbs given to my dad, the Resistols were trashy.

I still think a skillfully made felted welt edge is the best looking hat to be found though. Take Bogart for example, he liked them (used them often in the movies anyway), and boy did they look sharp on him!

Also, NonEntity never said he had had a felted welt brim, wouldn't it make sense if the brim was felted, the thicker layer around the edge would be stronger?

 

[J.T.Marcus]

My brother also had a raw edge with the same problem. I had to cut the brim down for him. However, it was also a Resistol, and both were given to us by the same friend, both had probably also been in an attic for years. Perhaps it damaged the felt? I don't know, but it was a bad experience.

Felt is one of the most durable of all textiles. If you were to try to tear the brim of a hat (even a contemporary Resistol), chances are you couldn't. (If you have made a fedora out of a cowboy hat, try it on a scrap you cut off the brim!) In order for it to tear, there has to be some sort of deterioration of the hairs that make up the felt. Storage in an attic, for years, could certainly cause that kind of breakdown. Attic temperatures can sometimes be in the neighborhood of 125 degrees F!