Rampant crime, and LENIENT JUDGES

[Andykev]

This is a very powerful video clip, from the President of the San Francisco Police Officer's Association, commenting on the death of a fellow officer, during the pursuit of four armed robbers, all with long criminal histories. The judges continue to let the felon, the violent habitural criminal, out again and again. I hope this clip and link works because this makes my blood boil.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3854816300207222203


This is really what is wrong with our society. No accountability, no responsiblilty. Politicians and liberal Judges letting scumbags back on the street to kill cops, rob citizens, endanger the public.

I for one, have had enough of this!

 

[deanglen]

This is a very powerful video clip, from the President of the San Francisco Police Officer's Association, commenting on the death of a fellow officer, during the pursuit of four armed robbers, all with long criminal histories. The judges continue to let the felon, the violent habitural criminal, out again and again. I hope this clip and link works because this makes my blood boil.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3854816300207222203


This is really what is wrong with our society. No accountability, no responsiblilty. Politicians and liberal Judges letting scumbags back on the street to kill cops, rob citizens, endanger the public.

I for one, have had enough of this!

ditto.:rage:

dean

 

[Lincsong]

Well, what can I say? Yeah the judges are way too lenient. But, and this is a big BUT! why are the Police Officers Associations backing the biggest and weakest candidates for office? Where were these guys when Kamala Harris was running? Yeah, Terrence Halllinan was a jackass, but Kamala Harris is no better.:rage: Over here, in Alameda County the illegal alien who killed a police officer in cold blood in July 2005 won't see trial until February 2007? Why? So his attorney can go to El Salvador to get evidence.:rage: Where were the Police Associations when it came to the Attorney Generals race and they backed Bill Lockyer twice?:rage: Or when they were backing Grey Davis for Governor!Not once but twice and during the recall.:rage: Who are they backing for Attorney General this year? Please don't tell me Jerry Brown!:rage: And why in the past 24 years, for 19 of those years a Republican was governor and Pete Wilson and Arnold Swarezennegger keep appointing liberal Democrats to the bench?

This situation really makes a lot of people's blood boil!

 

[Dixon Cannon]

Don' blame me....

This is a very powerful video clip, from the President of the San Francisco Police Officer's Association, commenting on the death of a fellow officer, during the pursuit of four armed robbers, all with long criminal histories. The judges continue to let the felon, the violent habitural criminal, out again and again. I hope this clip and link works because this makes my blood boil.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3854816300207222203


This is really what is wrong with our society. No accountability, no responsiblilty. Politicians and liberal Judges letting scumbags back on the street to kill cops, rob citizens, endanger the public.

I for one, have had enough of this!

...I vote LIBERTARIAN! And if you really have had enough..........

-dixon cannon

 

[deanglen]

...I vote LIBERTARIAN! And if you really have had enough..........

-dixon cannon

How long have you been Libertarian, Dixon?

dean

 

[Dixon Cannon]

All my life...

How long have you been Libertarian, Dixon? dean

..I just didn't know it had a name until I read Robert J. Ringers "Restoring the American Dream" back in 1979. That really put me on the path. Someone then gave me a 'mimeograph' of a thing called "Elements of Libertarian Leadership" by a guy namead Leonard E. Read.

http://209.217.49.168/vnews.php?nid=5311

I wrote to Leonard Read in Irvington, N.Y. to compliment him on this essay. Old Leonard, then about 80, sent me a signed copy of his book of the same title. He also put me on the mailing list of this organization, 'The Foundation for Economic Education' and I began receiving their journal 'The Freeman' (since renamed, 'Ideas On Liberty').

That was twenty-seven years ago and I've been an enrolled, registered voting Libertarian ever since. Now, how does this relate to this post??... Well, if a majority of informed voters voted for or wrote in Libertarian candidates and we began replacing DemoPubs with principled students of the Constitution we might just have a different looking society. A society where crimes are actually objective (not victimless like drug and tax and vice "crimes") and those real crimes would have actual punishments attached to them designed to punish the perpetrators - harshly. We wouldn't tolerate for a minute a judge that didn't adhere to the Constitution and Bill of Rights while meting out justice and protecting society from convicted criminals.

But.....as it is said; Many people want Liberty, they just don't want what makes for Liberty! Sad, but oh so true!

Repectfully,
-dixon cannon
Neo-Jeffersonian Constitutional Fundamentalist

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

The thought occurs to me,...

...that maybe we have so much crime, and a greater population at this juncture in time, that maybe we have run out of space and money for housing some criminals in prisons?
And so like any corporate entity with budget constraints would , the judicial system simply can not cope with it all, and is forced to make compromises and cutbacks in order to prevent further over crowding of prisons.
No easy answers for this dilemma.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I for one, have had enough of this!

You can help, Andy. In your will, leave some money for the building of more prisons. Or better yet, rethink the "3 strikes law" and give shorter sentences to the many, many small-time drug users and dealers in our overcrowded penitentiaries. Or you could always legalize certain drugs, such as marijuana and cocaine. That alone would open up a lot of prison cell space.

.

 

[Benny Holiday]

An out-of-touch judicial system

Australia has sadly become a nation in which the rights of an offender come before the rights of his or her victim/s. Bleeding-heart civil libertarians have influenced every aspect of the judicial system to the extent that the perpetrators of violent and anti-social crime (rapists, murderers, drug dealers) are now treated as the victims of society rather than as the predators they actually are.

A prime example: the genius of Melbourne judge Bill White. In 2000, one William Watkins appeared before White charged with bashing and raping a blind pensioner in her home. Prior to that, Watkins had entered a neighbour's house with the intention of robbing her, only to rape that neighbour in her own bed. After taking all the facts into account, including the defendant counsel's statement that Watkins was drunk at the time of his crimes, White sentened the offender to a minimum of two years behind bars for the second rape, and an additonal one year for the first crime.

In February of this year, the man White allowed back on the streets after just three years in prison murdered two young women, outraging the community. People rightly want to know what we're paying these fools for. They clearly have no idea that the public expects, and deserves, protection from the violent thugs that come before them for sentencing.

Sadly, this is but one of dozens of similar cases. In January of this year, a convicted pedophile was sentenced by Brisbane judge Ian Wylie to just three months' prison after molesting an 8-year-old girl. Why? He felt concerned for the perpeatrator's civil liberties because the man was intoxicated at the time of the assault. Are these clowns for real? What about the civil liberties of the little girl?

No wonder crime is on the increase. The judges need to held accountable for the crimes of those they give lenient sentences to. :rage:

 

[deanglen]

But.....as it is said; Many people want Liberty, they just don't want what makes for Liberty! Sad, but oh so true!

Repectfully,
-dixon cannon
Neo-Jeffersonian Constitutional Fundamentalist

As a pastor, I am often of the mind that we turn to the courts and laws to accomplish what we don't instill in our homes and in our families. More laws doesn't appear to be the answer. One thing the Fedora Lounge reflects, to me, is not simply the Golden Era of fashion, but the era of "community". There's even a thread about structuring a town, according to a "model" community of the Golden period. A sense of community puts behavior in a new light. You have a hard time being a bad guy surounded by people who know you and who affirm you and have a stake in your well-being as well as their own. ( I am NOT referring to a "commune"). One thing I have observed in the church is that when a person who was once active starts becoming a rarity, they're usually going through some painful trial, and the pastor is the last one to know. That's when the community of believers, the members, have been there to help. Community is the context for law, protecting the right of individuals for the benefit of all. Our modern age has lost the context for law, and it should be no surprise that courts are losing the context for justice.

dean

 

[Sunny]

Points well taken, Dean. I agree entirely.

I find it interesting in Romans 13, in which Paul says how government is instituted by God, and its officers are given authority to punish the wrongdoer. "But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing." What happens to a nation and government when its officers refuse to exercise that authority? We end up losing rights and liberties, because the ungoverned excesses of lawbreakers encroach on us. It's back to the paradox that true freedom is only possible in submission. But that's not going to happen here on earth, as long as people are running it!

What encourages me is that in this country, the people truly are, ultimately, the government. Sure, there's a lot that's messed up with the political system, parties, politics, etc., regardless of your governmental leanings. But the very fact that we're free and able to say such things about our government goes for a lot! Lenient judges who are elected will have a day of reckoning, as will the governors who appoint them. Since we're the government, the authority to punish wrongdoers is ultimately our own. That is a great responsibility. There's always something we can do.

 

[Feraud]

I like the comments about holding judges accountable for their actions.
Special interest groups attempt to sue firearm manufactuers for misuse of their product.
I would like to see someone sue a judge for letting a repeat offender out on bail and committing crimes.

 

[Matthew Dalton]

It amazes me how much a guy can get away with because he was drunk at the time...

Want to kill someone? Have a few shots first, shave a few decades off of your prison time. Simply amazing.

 

[deanglen]

Points well taken, Dean. I agree entirely.

I find it interesting in Romans 13, in which Paul says how government is instituted by God, and its officers are given authority to punish the wrongdoer. "But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing." What happens to a nation and government when its officers refuse to exercise that authority? We end up losing rights and liberties, because the ungoverned excesses of lawbreakers encroach on us. It's back to the paradox that true freedom is only possible in submission. But that's not going to happen here on earth, as long as people are running it!

What encourages me is that in this country, the people truly are, ultimately, the government. Sure, there's a lot that's messed up with the political system, parties, politics, etc., regardless of your governmental leanings. But the very fact that we're free and able to say such things about our government goes for a lot! Lenient judges who are elected will have a day of reckoning, as will the governors who appoint them. Since we're the government, the authority to punish wrongdoers is ultimately our own. That is a great responsibility. There's always something we can do.

Well put, Sunny! Since I'm Lutheran, it reminds me of some quotes from Luther:

"(one in authority) must remember in this case that he is God’s minister and the servant of His wrath ( Romans 13:4), to whom the sword is committeed for use upon such fellows, and that he sins as greatly against God, if he does not punish and protect and does not fulfill the duties of his office, as does one to whom the sword has not been committed when he commits a murder. If he can punish and does not — even though the punishment consist in the taking of life and the shedding of blood — then he is guilty of all the murder and all the evil which these fellows commit, because, by willful neglect of the divine command, he permits them to practice their wickedness, though he can prevent it, and is in duty bound to do so. Here, then, there is no time for sleeping; no place for patience or mercy. It is the time of the sword, not the day of grace."

Your paradox with freedom and submission was great! Not an easy concept for our present day! Even Luther had critics of his view of secular justice, authority and punishment for crime. He wrote:

"Suppose I were to break into a man’s house, rape his wife and daughters, break open his coffers, take his money, set a sword to his breast, and say, “If you will not put up with this, I shall run you through, for you are a godless wretch”; then if a crowd gathered and were about to kill me, or if the judge ordered my head off, suppose I were to cry out, “Ei, Christ teaches that you are to be merciful and not kill me”; what would people say? That is exactly what my peasants and peasants’ advocates are doing now. Now that they have done their own sweet will upon their lords, like robbers, murderers, thieves, and scalawags, we are to have a song about mercy, and say, “Be merciful, as Christ teaches, and let us rage, as the devil teaches: do good to us, and let us do our worst to you; be satisfied with what we have done and call it right, and call what you are doing wrong.”

Who could not do that? If that is mercy, then we shall start a pretty state of affairs; we shall have no sword, ruler, punishment, hangman, or prison, and let every knave do as he pleases; then, when he is to be punished, we shall sing, “Ei, be merciful, as Christ teaches.” That would be fine law! There you see what they have in mind who condemn my book as though it denied mercy. They are certainly good peasants, rebels, and regular blood-dogs, or else they have been led astray by them; for they would like all wickedness to go unpunished, while under the name of mercy, they are the most merciless and cruel destroyers of the whole world, so far as it is in their power to be. “Nay,” say they, “we do not justify the peasants and would not prevent their punishment, but it seems wrong to us for you to teach that no mercy should be shown the poor peasants; for you say that they ought to be slain without mercy.” I answer that if you really mean that, I am all golden. But all this is merely a cloak for your bloodthirsty self-will, which takes secret delight in the ways of the peasants. Where have I ever taught that no mercy should be shown? In that self-same book do I not beg the rulers to show grace to those who surrender? Why do you not open your eyes and read it? Then it would not have been necessary for you to damn my book, and take offense at it. But you are so full of poison that you seize upon the one bit of it in which I say that those who will not surrender or listen ought to be killed without mercy; and pass by the rest of it, in which I say that those who surrender are to be shown grace. Everybody can see that you are a spider that sucks poison from the rose. It is not true that you condemn the peasants, or that you love mercy, but you would like to see wickedness free and unpunished, and the temporal sword brought to nought. Nevertheless, you will not accomplish it."

Hope this moves the dicussion forward!

dean

 

[McPeppers]

Did you know that in New Orleans before Katrina we had about an 80% turnout rate in our judicial system? 80% of people taken to trial for various crimes were allowed to go free...

Ain't that something?

Why did it change since Katrina? Houston got most of our problems... I really feel sorry for the kind people of Houston. And now that we're back...crime is going up again... tho our murder rate through this point in the year is only 97 ppl... compared to the mid-200's this same time last year.

I can't wait to go home to Florida after college...I cant respect our Judicial system here.

 

[MK]

.

I like the comments about holding judges accountable for their actions.
Special interest groups attempt to sue firearm manufactuers for misuse of their product.
I would like to see someone sue a judge for letting a repeat offender out on bail and committing crimes.

That would never come to pass.....but I love the idea of holding judges accountable....if nothing else making them answer questions about their actions at a press conference.

I don't want to go off topic, but as for those lawsuits regarding misuse against firearm manufactures.....that is wrong and opens a door for huge problems for every manufacturer. Chevy will be sued by M.A.D.D. because some drunk ran over a kid. I won't comment anymore on that in this thread out of respect for the topic.

 

[Paisley]

I think crime in the U.S. is actually a lot lower than it was 20 and 30 years ago. With the exception of some urban areas, I don't think judges in flyover country are as lenient as they used to be.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

... true freedom is only possible in submission.

Your paradox with freedom and submission was great! Not an easy concept for our present day!

One religion that puts great emphasis on this concept is Islam. In fact, the word "islam" itself means "to submit".

.

 

[deanglen]

One religion that puts great emphasis on this concept is Islam. In fact, the word "islam" itself means "to submit".

.

I'd venture to say a pretty complete emphasis on it, Marc, but you've got good point. Keep going. Begs the question, which I suspect you intended, as to what makes Christians and others different. An excellent question. I must say though, I'm afraid I've dragged this thread into the exclusively religious area that would not be harmonious with the original thread, for which I apologize . I feel it would be wise to continue in this direction by PM if anyone desires, and return the thread to its originator's intent. Forgive my professional bias fueled by excessive zeal, for this skewing of the discussion. It's been very interesting.

dean

 

[Feraud]

I don't want to go off topic, but as for those lawsuits regarding misuse against firearm manufactures.....that is wrong and opens a door for huge problems for every manufacturer. Chevy will be sued by M.A.D.D. because some drunk ran over a kid. I won't comment anymore on that in this thread out of respect for the topic.

I agree on both counts!