Rabbits and Beavers

[gtdean48]

.... At the high end fur would be aged for a year or more before felting...

It is my understanding that felt bodies were aged considerably before finishing as to let the body "felt" more then get pounced & shaped...read that Stetson let some bodies age up to a year also. Lots of cash tied up in that process for sure...

 

[mayserwegener]

Yes definitely. Over time many of these practices / processes were eliminated or modified to reduce costs. I wish we had more details.

 

[nigeloscar]

I chose Beaver .. Thanks for advice guys!

 

[DJH]

Good choice nigeloscar. John's beaver hats are very nice indeed. He also seems to have a new rabbit based felt he says works well for the indy style hats. I hope you'll post some pics of your Penman when it arrives.

 

[TwelfthMonk]

So many people say Rabbit fur is Far Inferior and will never last long but they also claim an Akubra will out last you. which is true?

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[Edward]

I've never had a problem with rabbit. My opinion based on my experience is that rabbit, hare and beaver are all equally 'good'; beaver is more expensive because it is rarer and not farmed like rabbit can be. In terms of hat quality, though - all other things being equal - I am of the view that it's like comparing goat, steer and horse - different leathers with different properties. YMMV, of course.

 

[Frunobulax]

The idea that bunny fur (more accurately, hare) won't make a good felt is mistaken. Many of the classic vintage hats we all love are made of hare, just ask Steve (@mayserwegener). If you think that your classic Strat is all beaver, well, that's not likely true. Many are likely a mix, but few are likely pure beaver, if they contain any at all.

Beaver is a superior material for felting, due to the barbs on the fur which give you a better interlocking felt. Art Fawcett was waxing eloquently on that in a thread not too long ago.

For modern hats, the source appears to be key. Some on here have no love for Winchester hare bodies, and their beaver is deemed far superior. Others, like FEPSA and Tonak, seem to have better hare bodies.


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[TwelfthMonk]

So the rabbit will never last if you use it everyday is just a bunch of crap? If so im not spending the extra

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[David Conwill]

My Akubras are at least half again as thick, maybe twice as thick, as the various vintage felts that have passed through my hands. I wonder if that might be a factor in their longevity?

Still, rabbit is at least far superior to wool and mine seem to be holding up just fine some ten or so years on with regular wear in all conditions.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

So the rabbit will never last if you use it everyday is just a bunch of crap? If so im not spending the extra

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It’s not just a matter of longevity. For some applications (velour) hare is superior to beaver. If you want a dense felt capable of of accepting a fine finish that will also hold a shape better then Beaver is superior. It’s like saying that stainless steel is tougher than gold so why have a wedding ring made from gold? And to add to the confusion there is hare, rabbit, and hare/rabbit blends.

If you look at a modern Stetson Premier Stratoliner (100% bunny) and compare it to modern Stetson New York LE (100% beaver) you will immediately see big differences. I like my Premier Stratoliners, but the beaver felt is far superior in finish, hand, ability to be molded/shaped, and in general appearance. I can see the difference at 20 feet.

 

[jlee562]

The truth is there are a million ways to answer this.

The most simple answer is that beaver is superior, it felts tighter, and generally is more resilient to water (beaver are aquatic animals, rabbits and hare are not).

I don't know who is saying rabbit will "never" last.

Now, we can pile on a whole bunch of caveats to the above. If resiliency is all you're after, go for an Akubra. If you care about the overall finish of the hat, I'd say stay away from Akubra and opt for a more expensive beaver hat.

 

[Frunobulax]

There are myriad threads on the Lounge discussing this subject. The OP should read up on those to get a better sense of this common discussion.

There are two factors in a hat - material and workmanship. A good hatter can get great results with a good material (hare or beaver), but will likely tell you beaver is easier to work with.


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[johnnycanuck]

So the rabbit will never last if you use it everyday is just a bunch of crap? If so im not spending the extra

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Yes it is nonsense.
The big difference is Beaver is more expensive so you are more likely to send it back to your hatter to have it cleaned and serviced when it starts to show age/dirt/wear.
Johnny

 

[scottyrocks]

Two ways to extend the longevity of any fur felt hat is to not handle it by the crown, and then to leave the crease alone, in general, and especially if it is a sharp crease.

Think of repetitively bending the crease in the same way you might bend a piece of wire back and forth repeatedly. Over time, it's gonna break. Grabbing a hat by the front crease is similar to this type of abuse, and in time will cause problems.

Handle your hats by the brim, and they will last a long time.

 

[TwelfthMonk]

Thank you all for the info I think I will be going with The Rabbit fur just because of price and The properties of beaver will not be be enough to justify the price for me

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[scottyrocks]

Thank you all for the info I think I will be going with The Rabbit fur just because of price and The properties of beaver will not be be enough to justify the price for me

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I have a custom hat on order and I'm going with bunny.

 

[mayserwegener]

Wild Hare is used for long hair finishes because it produces the most glossy finish and is very durable. Supposedly Saxon Hare produced the finest Velour but I haven't been able to find out anything about this variety (appears lost in time). Wild Hare is difficult to felt so the pickling / carrotting agent is very important.

 

[jlee562]

IMHO, if you're sinking money into a custom, go for beaver.

 

[1mach1]

IMHO, if you're sinking money into a custom, go for beaver.

I have to agree. Its not that much more money, and the feeling is completely different. Especially the Winchester rabbit vs the Winchester beaver.

 

[Joao Encarnado]

Yes it is nonsense.
The big difference is Beaver is more expensive so you are more likely to send it back to your hatter to have it cleaned and serviced when it starts to show age/dirt/wear.
Johnny

More expensive but not "that" much expensive.