Questions About the United States Navy Peacoat

[Jovan]

Jovan, looks like a size 38?

What?

 

[Peacoat]

What?

The peacoat you posted a picture of looks like a size 38.

 

[Peacoat]

Here's the strangest WWII-era peacoat I've ever come across. The cloth is very fuzzy, sort of like steel wool. I've never seen anything like it.


Strange indeed. Do you have a picture of the label? Could be that over time, and with improper cleaning methods, the wool degraded to the finish that you observed. The stencil on the inside of the coat certainly seems to be in very good shape, however. Though the information stenciled on the coat is not the standard name and service number. Also, I noted that the inside lining is not the shiny rayon type nylon seen in peacoats prior to 1980, but is more of heavy cotton fabric.

We probably won't solve this riddle anytime soon!

 

[Jovan]

Well, I guess it COULD be considered a 38. That's my size. However, it merely is labeled as "M" since it's not in any way official. Give three guesses to where I got it.

 

[Dakota]

I have a WWII Coast Guard peacoat that has that type of lining; it's not the shiny type like on other WWII or older peacoats. But the wool is more smooth.


Strange indeed. Do you have a picture of the label? Could be that over time, and with improper cleaning methods, the wool degraded to the finish that you observed. The stencil on the inside of the coat certainly seems to be in very good shape, however. Though the information stenciled on the coat is not the standard name and service number. Also, I noted that the inside lining is not the shiny rayon type nylon seen in peacoats prior to 1980, but is more of heavy cotton fabric.

We probably won't solve this riddle anytime soon![/QUOTE]

 

[wetmarble]

It could also be a much earlier coat than WW2. I'm not sure when exactly they changed the buttons after WW1, although I did see a 1920s era coat on ebay recently that had the newer style buttons.

 

[Jovan]

A friend of mine has a Soviet Union issued overcoat that has a very course wool fabric like that. I'll try to find out what year it's from so we can get a decent comparison of when these guys were around at the very least.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Strange indeed. Do you have a picture of the label?

Unfortunately, no. When I found the coat, the label had either fallen off or been removed. I could still see where it had been.

Could be that over time, and with improper cleaning methods, the wool degraded to the finish that you observed.

No, the wool had been fuzzy from the beginning. The coat was in excellent, practically mint condition, and the cloth was quite thick -- about 50% thicker than the standard pea coat cloth. In short, it was manufactured as fuzzy: imagine a mixture of straight, short-fibered mohair and curly-fibered boiled wool (Loden).


The coat had 10 front buttons and a throat latch. The lining was a slightly waxy, thick cotton twill. The pockets were lined with tan, narrow-wale corduroy. Everything points to this pea coat being from the World War II era.


The mystery continues ... [huh]


.

 

[wetmarble]

My other theory is that it could be a cold weather peacoat. I know that they produced heavier peacoats for Northern Climates like the North sea, perhaps this is one of those?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

My other theory is that it could be a cold weather peacoat.

Bet you're right. The address stenciled on the lining says, "Great Lakes, Illinois." It doesn't get colder and windier than that!


.

 

[Peacoat]

Bet you're right. The address stenciled on the lining says, "Great Lakes, Illinois." It doesn't get colder and windier than that!


.

Great Lakes is, and has been, the location of Navy Boot Camp, so it doesn't surprise me that the coat has that stenciled on the lining. What does surprise me is that someone's name is not stenciled on the lining. The wording seems to be more generic as if the coat had been assigned to a company or a building. Have never seen that on a lining before. The mystery continues.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

That's true, there is no individual's name on the lining or anywhere else. [huh]


I guess, then, that "U.S.N.T.G." stands for "United States Navy Training Ground"?


.

 

[Peacoat]

I would think that would be close. "Naval" instead of "Navy" would be more accurate. Not sure what the "G" stands for, but "Ground" is as good a guess as any. Could be "Group" as the Navy likes use the word "Group" when talking about formations of ships. Whatever it stands for, it certainly was in a cold part of the country!

 

[green papaya]

maybe it was a private purchase pea coat that a sailor bought himself?

could be commercially made, and bought at a surplus store

 

[Peacoat]

maybe it was a private purchase pea coat that a sailor bought himself?

could be commercially made, and bought at a surplus store

A good idea, except that it doesn't appear to have been owned by an individual seaman.

Perhaps the coat was for use on guard duty on especially cold nights when a regular peacoat just wasn't enough coat? It could have been assigned to a company and loaned out for duty? Even if true, there is still no explanation where it came from. The private purchase idea initially sounds plausible, but I just can't see a supply chief going outside Navy procurement and purchasing a coat on the civilian market. They aren't wired that way. And, as earlier established, the coat does not appear to have been privately owned.

Anybody else have any ideas? So far we have more questions than we have answers.

 

[3rdGen1940]

Hey Guys. I've read this entire thread and I hope y'all can help me find more information about my peacoat.

Here's the story as far as I know it: It was my grandfather's coat. He was in the Navy during WW II. He wore it pretty much everyday until he was murdered in 1964. The house he lived in was abandoned in 1972 and was condemned. In 2004, I learned from my father that the house was still standing in what had become a very bad neighborhood. To my surprise many of the antiques and furnishings were still in the house and the coat was one of the things I took.

My first question is the date. I believe my grandfather graduated high school in 1940 so I would assume that it was issued around that date. Here's a picture of the tag:

As you can see, there is no name or rate but my father confirmed that it is my grandfather's peacoat.

Here's a picture of the pocket interior:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y61/mgoudy85/DSC01062.jpg

It seems like the same gold or tan that people have mentioned before.

Here's a question that hasn't been asked. What is the proper way to wear a peacoat? Here's a pic of how I have been wearing it:

Is this the correct way?

 

[Peacoat]

You obviously have a WWII peacoat with four rows of buttons. The Navy way is to wear the coat with all eight of the buttons buttoned at all times.

You are a civilian, and there are no Drill Instructors around to gig you for the way you wear the coat. You don't have to follow the Navy way; however, this is a double breasted garment, and it should never be worn completely unbuttoned. I normally leave the bottom button unbuttoned on my peacoats, and button the rest of them. This relieves the strain on the threads of the bottom button. Buttons are not easy to sew back on; that exercise can best be avoided by not stressing the bottom button threads. If it is cold enough for a peacoat, then all of the other buttons should be buttoned. If walking or standing for more than a few minutes, I will button the bottom button as well. While seated in a car, or at a football game, I leave it unbuttoned.

I wear my WWII coat the same as you wear yours--top button is buttoned. If it isn't cold enough to button the top button, or the other buttons, I wear something else.

Interesting that there was still anything left in the house, especially a peacoat, when you visited.

 

[wetmarble]

Very nice coat. You're lucky to have found it.

I agree, it is definitely a World War 2 era peacoat. Without a rating badge on the sleeve, it's difficult to pin it down to a specific year, however, since you have a history to go with the coat, your estimate of 1940 is likely to be correct.

As for wearing it, wear it in whatever manner you find most comfortable.

Personally, I wear my 6 button coat with all 3 buttons buttoned and the top button unbuttoned. My 6 button coat is a 42 however and I really should be wearing a 40. The extra room in the coat means that stress on the button thread is not a factor.

 

[wetmarble]

New Info from an ebay auction:

I believe it is vintage because it has the person's name stenciled on the inside plus an ID number that is only 7 digits long meaning it is his service number. [The Army and Air Force replaced service numbers with Social Security Numbers in 1969. The Navy and Marine Corps followed suit in 1972.] Social security numbers were stenciled in after 1972.

This is confirmed here: http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/military-personnel/social-security-numbers.html

 

[Peacoat]

Somewhat off topic, but still tangentially related: Even though the Army didn't start using SSNs until 1969, the last four digits of the SSN were stenciled on everything we owned. This was during the time the service numbers were in use, and well before the SSN became the method of identification.