Questions About the United States Navy Peacoat

[Peacoat]

The spec is on page 4, 3.3.1 Basic Material.;

“The basic material shall be 22 ounce wool melton conforming to type II, class 4 of MIL-C-16290 shade blue 3346.”

Yes, it definitely says ". . . shade blue." So Sterlingwear is right. But I'm with Doc Damage: It looks black to me. But I think in a good light, compared to a known black object there would be a little blue showing. Thanks for finding that. I had read that page but just missed it.

 

[Doctor Damage]

^ Note 3.3.2 that the fleece lining is to be dyed black and lines only the body. The sleeves are lined with a satin material, also dyed black.

 

[Wyldkarma]

Great guide. Thank you for helping find and date my new peacoat. After reading your guide and searching ebay for a good size 46 I came up empty. So I did a local Craigslist search and found a Size 46 peacoat. After viewing his photos I realized he had what appears to be 1949 issue peacoat in great shape. We met and when I tried on the coat - it fit like it was tailored to me. Not too loose and not too tight. In perfect condition, it looked like it just came out of the box. He was originally asking $175, but he had it listed for a couple months with no takers and I walked away with it for only $85.00 . But, here is the rub, I got home and got out my magnifying glass to better inspect the faded label and it showed it as a size 42. He had it listed as size 46. But, it still fit me perfectly and I was wearing a heavy sweatshirt underneath. I would have thought these were sized slimmer and would never even considered a size 42. I am 6' ft even at 195 lbs. Most of my jackets are 44 / 46. Had he listed it correctly I would have passed right by it.

 

[Peacoat]

The 1949 peacoats have the nicest finish of all the years. You did very well.

Welcome to the Lounge.

 

[EmergencyIan]

I think the "blue" is b.s. and it's actually black, ha ha. And black comes is different shades believe it or not. Also that spec document I linked above is from 1988 and I imagine they've changed it since, but I haven't tried to find a newer spec (on the other hand, sometimes these things don't change for ages).

Here's the spec document for the cloth:
http://everyspec.com/COMML_ITEM_DESC/A-A-55000_A-A-55999/A-A-55198_50107

Using that site you can look up the documents for each of the components, if you're particularly keen.

Maybe to add to this, my wife would dye her hair black, once it began to gray. The “black” dye was often labeled “midnight blue.” I saw it, daily, in sunlight and every other light imaginable, I never saw ANY blue.

- Ian

 

[Doctor Damage]

Useless trivia time... I am reading a book on costume history right now and one of the earliest mentions of "pea jackets," or "pilot jackets" as they were interchangeably known at the time, was 1836 in the UK. Short, double breasted jackets. Not precisely today's version, but in essence very similar. The book is about civilian clothing, so no mention when they were adopted as a military garment, but in those days usually only naval officers had uniforms.

 

[DrMacabre]

Hi guys, do you have any ressources about how to properly sew buttons on a peacoat ?

 

[Peacoat]

First of all, orient the buttons vertically (up and down). Use a heavy duty thread and a large needle. A thimble is helpful. Careful that you don't sew through a pocket. Each button has four holes for the thread. I have seen various patterns for using these holes. The coat I just checked has the thread going through all four of the holes on the outside to form a square. I have seen the pattern of sewing the top two holes and then the bottom two holes to form parallel stitching. I usually use crisscross stitching. That way if I should get the needle in the wrong hole, it isn't noticeable. I don't think it makes much difference as long as you orient the button the correct way and don't sew through a pocket. Some like to use a smaller backing button on the inside. This protects the liner from being pulled out by the stitching.

 

[Dr H]

I’m resewing a button this evening. In addition to the previous post, do leave a decent shank as it’s a thick coat.

 

[DrMacabre]

Thanks, i was looking for something a little more illustrated, when looking closely, they used a Z shape sewing but the way it goes thru the coat is intriguing. There is like a little knot on the thread that can be seen coming of the coat at the back at each button and a specific way of rolling the end of the thread under the buttons. I have to admit the button hasn’t come off yet so i can only see a little of the work.

 

[Peacoat]

Now that you mentioned it, I have seen the Z type stitching as well.

 

[Tommy-VF51]

Thanks a lot guys... you lot have had my latest obsession become getting a WW2/ 40s Peacoat...

Found a few good examples in Brighton (UK) today, which were on half price sale. Of course even the biggest was too small. Tried some 50s/60s. 42" Chest was too big with a USN Sweater and a CPO shirt, 1960s 38" was probably closet, but maybe too snug. No 40" chests in the earlier era's. To be honest, didn't even try anything that didn't have cord lined pockets on.

If anyone in the South East UK wants a location, dm me. The WW2 were around £60 in the sales, but were all very small sizes- 34-36, Maybe a small 38 was the biggest, but was more snug than the later one.

 

[Peacoat]

Back during the WWII era men were smaller, thus the abundance of WWII peacoat in sizes 36 and 38. Plus the men were about 18 or 19 years old at the time of entering service and had not yet "filled out." A size 40 is increasingly difficult to find. A size 42 is even more difficult to find. In fact one of our bartenders was on the hunt for a size 42 WWII peacoat for about a year without success. If one is looking for a size 44 or 46 of the WWII era, good luck.

 

[Atticus Finch]

Yes. And when one finds older military outerwear in larger sizes, it often caries a hefty “big boy” tariff. I know. I’m a size 48 and finding vintage flight jackets that fit...and that I could afford...has always been quite a challenge.

I actually have two mid-1950s peacoats in size 50. I found them on eBay, about a year apart. Oddly enough, I was the only bidder in both auctions. Admittedly, they were somewhat badly listed, but I’m sure other collectors must have seen them. I’ve often wondered if they just didn’t believe that issued size 50 peacoats actually existed.

AF

 

[Peacoat]

You are very fortunate to have found, not one, but two of the post war models in size 50. Odd there were no other bidders. Lounge member @Spoonbelly also fits in the big boy sizes. I think his are sizes 46 and 48.

 

[Bushwalker]

Back during the WWII era men were smaller, thus the abundance of WWII peacoat in sizes 36 and 38. Plus the men were about 18 or 19 years old at the time of entering service and had not yet "filled out." A size 40 is increasingly difficult to find. A size 42 is even more difficult to find. In fact one of our bartenders was on the hunt for a size 42 WWII peacoat for about a year without success. If one is looking for a size 44 or 46 of the WWII era, good luck.

There is a size 42 USN reefer coat on ebay right now.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com.hk/ulk/itm/142706060135

 

[Peacoat]

Two things immediately struck me about this listing. First she is listing it as a WWII coat. Well, it isn't. Clearly it is a c. 1950 peacoat, probably a 1953 peacoat. Secondly she says she estimates it as a 42 long. The tag clearly states that it is a size 42 with no indication that it is a long size. Not sure long sizes were even produced back then. When dealing with Bay sellers, buyers beware. But, all of that aside, it might be a very nice peacoat.

 

[Atticus Finch]

You are very fortunate to have found, not one, but two of the post war models in size 50. Odd there were no other bidders. Lounge member @Spoonbelly also fits in the big boy sizes. I think his are sizes 46 and 48.

Sad thing is, I lost some weight last year and now I’m back to being a size 46 or 48. I also have a 1978 coat in size 48. It’s serviceable...even though it fits a bit loosely...but it’s nowhere near as nice as my 1950s peacoats.

AF

 

[w126c]

The "Z" stitch.

Regards,

 

[Peacoat]

The question of why peacoats could be buttoned either to the left or the right on the pre 1966 coats has arisen in the past, but we have never had a completely satisfactory answer. Well, board member @SpeedRcrX has come up with what I think is the definitive answer. She posted in another thread in which the question was discussed. Below I have quoted her post in the other thread:

I'm coming back to this thread because I may have some explanations about the buttons on both sides.
The company Dalmard Marine, one of the older manufacturer still in activity in France (1922) used to make buttons on both sides on their peacoats (Cabans in French).
It was to protect against the wind.
When the sailors were on boat, they could button up on the right side or the left depending if the wind was coming from the port or starboard side.

Edit: Apparently Dalmard is still making buttons on both side.
https://www.dalmardmarine.com/en/

Thank you @SpeedRcrX for posting this.