Questions About the United States Navy Peacoat

[Doctor Damage]

Bidding just closed on a WW2 pea coat on e-Bay and it sold for a frightening GBP 368.00 after 20 bids! The tag was removed but the sizing appeared to be a 42 based on measurements (pits 23, shoulder 19.75, sleeve 25.5).

Here are photos of that coat that went for such a large amount of money.

 

[Spoonbelly]

Here are photos of that coat that went for such a large amount of money.

I noticed something about this coat. It has 10 buttons as WWII coats do, but it also has two rows of stitching near the cuffs as postwar coats do. I've never seen a WWII coat like that before. Usually they have only 1 row of stitching a few inches above the cuff.

 

[Doctor Damage]

USCG reefer is back from the dry cleaners and it's an excellent garment, made of a thick soft wool, with brass Waterbury buttons. The size is 40L and I'm usually a 42L so it's a bit snug (super high armholes) and I'm not sure I will keep it since I have a 42L USN reefer coming and that will probably fit a bit better. But anyway, here's a photo.

 

[Peacoat]

So, is this coat made of the vintage Kersey wool, modern Melton or something else?

 

[Doctor Damage]

So, is this coat made of the vintage Kersey wool, modern Melton or something else?

It's made from the modern melton, 100% wool. From what I've seen on e-Bay the standard USCG coats are made from a 45% wool 55% poly thin ribbed twill, with pockets which are identical to the USN pea coats. So in other words, this coat that I have is an oddball and probably a sample or something that was available private purchase, sort of like how some bridge coats don't quite match the "standard" details.

 

[Kingston83]

So I've been reading through the threads and picking up more and more info, and decided to add some extra bits...

1. For anyone that is looking for a clear-cut difference between kersey and melton:
-Kersey is 100% wool, woven in a twill pattern and features a trimmed nap on both sides. 32 oz.
-Melton (as is used in the current production military coats) is 100% government sanctioned wool, woven in a plain weave, and features a nap on only one side of the fabric. 24 oz.

2. I see that the new coats are referred to as black in color, although I have been told by more than one representative at sterlingwear that they are still blue, albeit a very very dark blue.

3. I would start asking sellers for girth, yoke, and half-back measurements, in addition to pit-2-pit, sleeve, and coat length. Proportions always vary, and you can have all the volume in the world but if it isn't proportionally distributed it just won't work. Here is the measurement guide that I posted in another thread: http://www.moderntailor.com/static/mt/men_suit_measureguide.pdf

 

[blenheimIV]

hello - new member here & first time writing - have followed this thread for
quite a while and find it most enjoyable and informative.
I've had a few peacoats since college but have given all of them away over the years due to my outgrowing them. Gave a 1966 to my brother- a WWII to my
son-in-law and a 1969 reefer to my dad. I just bought what would appear to be
a near mint WWII coat but have a couple of things about it that make me question its authenticity. I have compared it to the coat I gave my son-in-law and it is identical when it comes to the kersey, the stitching on the sleeves, the
light brown corduroy pocket lining, the throat latch & the lining, the
things that make me doubt are the fact that there are no tags and I see no stitching holes where the tags should be. It doesn't have the triangular pattern stitching on the underside of the collar and there is no name stenciled inside and it would seem to be a size 46 if I have measured correctly - a very rare size for a WWII coat.
Any thoughts on this coat would be appreciated - thanks

 

[Doctor Damage]

There's another excellent condition WW2 pea coat up in ~size 40 on the UK e-Bay site... wonder how much this one will be bid up to?

 

[Peacoat]

I just bought what would appear to be
a near mint WWII coat but have a couple of things about it that make me question its authenticity. I have compared it to the coat I gave my son-in-law and it is identical when it comes to the kersey, the stitching on the sleeves, the
light brown corduroy pocket lining, the throat latch & the lining, the
things that make me doubt are the fact that there are no tags and I see no stitching holes where the tags should be. It doesn't have the triangular pattern stitching on the underside of the collar and there is no name stenciled inside and it would seem to be a size 46 if I have measured correctly - a very rare size for a WWII coat.
Any thoughts on this coat would be appreciated - thanks

I agree that 46 is a rare size for WWII coats. I haven't seen enough coats of that vintage to know if all had the pocket tags and the triangular stitching. Not unusual to not have a name stencilled inside the coat.

Check on the lining just under the center of the collar where the hang loop is, and see if there are any stitch marks in a rectangular pattern in that location. For WWII coats, there was a white tag in that location that usually didn't last very long. It was the first tag to go with even moderate wear. Information on the tag included the size of the coat, US Naval Clothing Factory, Brooklyn and the inspector's initials.

Also, look inside all the pockets. In later years the tags were sometimes placed there. Some of the repro coats have a tag of the manufacturer inside one of the pockets. Sometimes a tag is inside the breast pocket and sometimes it is inside one of the hand warmer pockets.

Let us know what you find out.

Oh, and welcome to the Lounge.

 

[Spoonbelly]

hello - new member here & first time writing - have followed this thread for
quite a while and find it most enjoyable and informative.
I've had a few peacoats since college but have given all of them away over the years due to my outgrowing them. Gave a 1966 to my brother- a WWII to my
son-in-law and a 1969 reefer to my dad. I just bought what would appear to be
a near mint WWII coat but have a couple of things about it that make me question its authenticity. I have compared it to the coat I gave my son-in-law and it is identical when it comes to the kersey, the stitching on the sleeves, the
light brown corduroy pocket lining, the throat latch & the lining, the
things that make me doubt are the fact that there are no tags and I see no stitching holes where the tags should be. It doesn't have the triangular pattern stitching on the underside of the collar and there is no name stenciled inside and it would seem to be a size 46 if I have measured correctly - a very rare size for a WWII coat.
Any thoughts on this coat would be appreciated - thanks

I also have a WWII size 46 coat in mint condition. 44 and 46s are very rare for WWII coats. I think most WWII coats have a drab yellow color for the inside corduroy pockets, but I'm not sure if every single WWII coat had this color. Mine does have the triangular stitching under the collar and does have the tag stitching where the tags are supposed to be but the two tags on mine are both missing. I still wouldn't think that if it were a copy, that the Kersey would be identical to the WWII and post war coats. Hold your coat up into very bright direct sunlight outside. Old Kersey usually has a very sleightly purple overtone in the color in very strong sunlight caused from the many years of aging. If not this, you can usually see some sort of sleight fade or aging in the dark blue color. Newer coats probably wouldn't have this color, material "aging" effect.

 

[Overlymanlystyle]

Hey guys,

Quick question, and sorry if it's already been answered. I went to Marvin's Vintage yesterday, it's one of the top 4 vintage extremist (lol) shops in Tokyo. I'm familiar with the pea coat history to a certain extent, but I saw one piece that I couldn't really "explain".

It had the 13 star buttons, brown-ish stiching, but it was a WWII cut (no side pockets, shorter, etc.). I had seen that design on repros from Real McCoy's and Buzz Rickson's and I was thinking to myself "why the **** would they mix designs like this?". Until a few days ago when I actually saw a vintage piece with the same exact design.

So again, sorry if it's already been discussed but I couldn't really find anything. I'm really curious to hear the background story to that design.

 

[Peacoat]

Hey guys,

Quick question, and sorry if it's already been answered. I went to Marvin's Vintage yesterday, it's one of the top 4 vintage extremist (lol) shops in Tokyo. I'm familiar with the pea coat history to a certain extent, but I saw one piece that I couldn't really "explain".

It had the 13 star buttons, brown-ish stiching, but it was a WWII cut (no side pockets, shorter, etc.). I had seen that design on repros from Real McCoy's and Buzz Rickson's and I was thinking to myself "why the **** would they mix designs like this?". Until a few days ago when I actually saw a vintage piece with the same exact design.

So again, sorry if it's already been discussed but I couldn't really find anything. I'm really curious to hear the background story to that design.

The 13 star buttons were on the WWI coats, and may have continued in use on the 1930s/early WWII coats. Not sure when they were discontinued. Those buttons may well have been continued in service when the style of the coat changed to the "WWII version." That would explain the older type buttons on the newer style peacoat. Then at some point, the style of button changed to what we have now.

 

[Overlymanlystyle]

OK I see. Thanks a lot!

 

[Doctor Damage]

That USN reefer I ordered finally came and it's quite a nice garment. I will get it cleaned before I try it on, but by the measurements I took it should fit fine. It's a mil spec one by Wolverine Knitting Mills Inc. from 2001. Modern melton but with the reversed fleece liner and overall a very heavy garment. I can see myself aiming at an old reefer in kersey wool eventually.

 

[Spoonbelly]

That USN reefer I ordered finally came and it's quite a nice garment. I will get it cleaned before I try it on, but by the measurements I took it should fit fine. It's a mil spec one by Wolverine Knitting Mills Inc. from 2001. Modern melton but with the reversed fleece liner and overall a very heavy garment. I can see myself aiming at an old reefer in kersey wool eventually.

"Kersey Is King".

 

[northshorew]

Came across a vintage 34R 1966 peacoat with a shoulder board. What rank is it? Midshipman?
Pic: http://i.imgur.com/6QgvS32.jpg

 

[Peacoat]

Yes, first year, and it may be Naval ROTC as well.

 

[omza]

Hey,

I just got a WWII Peacoat on Ebay, and it has some damage not listed on Ebay. I was wondering if I could get people's opinions on if it is still a good deal, or if I should complain to Ebay, and make him take it back.

The main issue is that there is a spot on the arm where the wool has been worn through. It seems like the seller was trying to clean a stain off and screwed up.

The second issue is the top button is about to fall off, and one of the middle ones fell off in the mail. Otherwise it looks great, and I'm happy with it. I paid 150 including shipping.

Is there anything I can do about the sleeve? Put fabric from somewhere hidden on the coat on it? Is this just to be expected in a seventy year old coat?

Also, does anyone have advice on the button sewing? The way their attached seems different types from my modern coat.

Pics:http://imgur.com/a/jYVP4

 

[Spoonbelly]

Hey,

I just got a WWII Peacoat on Ebay, and it has some damage not listed on Ebay. I was wondering if I could get people's opinions on if it is still a good deal, or if I should complain to Ebay, and make him take it back.

The main issue is that there is a spot on the arm where the wool has been worn through. It seems like the seller was trying to clean a stain off and screwed up.

The second issue is the top button is about to fall off, and one of the middle ones fell off in the mail. Otherwise it looks great, and I'm happy with it. I paid 150 including shipping.

Is there anything I can do about the sleeve? Put fabric from somewhere hidden on the coat on it? Is this just to be expected in a seventy year old coat?

Also, does anyone have advice on the button sewing? The way their attached seems different types from my modern coat.

Pics:http://imgur.com/a/jYVP4

Button sewing is a minor thing. I think most buttons on pea coats are sewn in a "Z". I sew my own buttons and I'm no seamstress. I don't think that worn spot can be fixed. I could be wrong though. What size is the coat? If it is a common size as most WWII coats are , I would see if you can return it since the seller did not indicate this in the ebay post. 150 for a common size WWII coat with a permanent worn spot might be a bit much. If you are a common size keep checking ebay. WWII coats are not rare and you should be able to find one in very good to excellent to mint if you wait long enough.

 

[Peacoat]

Below is a link to sewing on a button. It sounds more complicated than it is. It is important to install the shank so the button won't be too tight. Get a thimble that is big enough for your fingers as the material is thick and tough to sew through. Also, get as large a needle as you can find. Someone at a fabric shop will know what size you need. Be careful to not sew through a pocket.

If you have a WWII coat that fits, and has no damage other than what you mentioned, I would be hesitant about sending it back. There is a process called reweaving which can repair damage to wool items of clothing. I think it is relatively expensive. Most large cities will have a tailor or seamstress who can repair damage in this matter. You might get an estimate, contact the seller, complain about the unmentioned damage and let him know how much it is going to cost you to get the coat in the condition as it was advertised. Maybe you can get a partial refund to help with the reweaving costs.

Hard to tell from your pictures the extent of the damage, but it doesn't appear to be that bad. Finding a WWII coat with no damage, and that fits, is a hit or miss proposition. Spoonbelly probably has more recent experience than I in finding WWII peacoats, so I don't think his advice is out of line. I just am reluctant to send a coat back with a minor problem and then take the chance that I might never again find one as nice in my size. But that is up to you, as you are the one who will wear it. Yesterday I wore my favorite peacoat. It was issued to a buddy of mine in 1965. After he got out of the Navy it hung in unprotected closets for years, until he gave it to me 6 or 7 years ago. The coat has several areas of moth damage, but the damage doesn't bother me at all. I got several compliments on the coat, and no one noticed the moth damage.

These coats will last as long as the owner, or owners, take care of them--well over 100 years, maybe even 200 years. So, the damage isn't as a result of the coat being old; something just happened to it on its journey through life during the past 70 years.

BTW, welcome to the Lounge.

http://www.wikihow.com/Sew-a-Button