Questions About the United States Navy Peacoat

[CasaBlancaChuck]

Pre-WWII buttons (I'm not sure the year) were different than the WWII era design. I had a terrific WWI coat with a large, multi-color dragon design sewn on the inner liner (undoubtedly done in Asia) but, alas, the coat was way too small for me. The anchor buttons from that era had (from memory) little stars circling the outer edge of the button. I believe there were 13 of them. I now (after many disappointments) have the (to me) perfect WWII peacoat...in like new condition, a perfect fit with that dark, dark Navy blue color that can only be seen out in the sunlight or when held next to a modern black one, and with the cordury pocket liners. The manufacturer's label with the anchors is also still attached.
Best wishes,
Chuck

 

[feltfan]

peacoat fabric

No one knows where to find more of that peacoat fabric?

 

[Peacoat]

No one knows where to find more of that peacoat fabric?

Do you want the fabric, or do you want the coat made from the fabric? The only fabric you would be able to get today would be the post 1980 fabric. The coats made of the old fabric are readily available on ebay. You have to know what you are looking for and the questions to ask to insure that the coat is made of the vintage fabric and is not a current issue coat or a reproduction. Nothing wrong with the current issue coats, but they don't have that thick smooth wool that is the trademark of the old classic coats. I hope I didn't answer a question you didn't ask.

As to the previous post about the buttons: yes, the pre WWII coats had the stars around the outer perimeter of the button. They are increasingly difficult to find.

 

[feltfan]

Do you want the fabric, or do you want the coat made from the fabric?

Ah, you must have missed my earlier post, Peacoat.
The coat on which I was replacing buttons was chewed
by a dog. So I am looking for enough *vintage* fabric
to match and repair. Any ideas?

Anyone have a trashed vintage peacoat with salvageable parts?

Thanks.

 

[Peacoat]

Ah, you must have missed my earlier post, Peacoat.
The coat on which I was replacing buttons was chewed
by a dog. So I am looking for enough *vintage* fabric
to match and repair. Any ideas?

Anyone have a trashed vintage peacoat with salvageable parts?

Thanks.

Sorry, I didn't see that post. There should be enough material on the inside flap (the material is doubled there) for any repair that you need done, if it can be done.

I saw in another post that you want a vintage Peacoat, size 48 or 50 . That size is hard to find as most of the young men going in the Navy back then wore a 42 or smaller. The 38s and 40s are easy to find. The tag size is not always accurate. The best way to determine what size you need is to find a coat that fits you well--the same as you want the Peacoat to fit--lay it face up flat on a bed, and measure across the chest from just under one armpit to just under the other armpit. For your size, you should have a measurement of about 24 to 25". Most experienced sellers of Peacoats will give that measurement in the ebay ad. If not, ask for it. However, with all of that in mind, I normally wear a 42, and a Peacoat in size 42 is almost always a good fit for me, whether it is a WWII or a current issue. A size 42 will normally measure 44" flat across the front. The outside measurement is usually 2" larger than the inside measurement.

Let me know what you measure, and I will go on ebay to see if a vintage coat is available in your size. I looked for a 50 for a buddy of mine last year, and only found one in three months of searching. He gave me his 1965 original issue size 42 Peacoat, and I wanted to find him a replacement that fit him in his new and expanded size.

 

[dougie]

WW2 Peacoat restoration

Hi all,

Over the weekend I picked up a WW2-issue peacoat (I base the date on info I found in past threads; the label is wartime as far as i can tell). The body fabric is in perfect shape (no holes, tears, or discoloration) except around the collar, where some of the color has worn away. It's not a big deal but I was wondering if there was a process by which a tailor or I might restore the collar so that the color is consistent with the rest of the coat. Any thoughts?

Also, the lapels are small relative to most peacoats (there are four buttons visible) and aren't pressed down. Should they be pressed? I've been looking for photos from the era online but have come up empty.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Peacoat]

One of the problems with the four button small lapel WWII coat is that the lapels don't always lie flat against the coat. It doesn't bother me, but it probably bothered the military neat freaks back then. I asked the cleaners about this and was told that the lapels would be steamed, but not pressed. Evidently the steaming is intended to make them lie flat. That might work if they are trained to lie flat after a steaming. I just don't worry about it too much, but I did put a strong clip on the lapels to help train it. It helped some.

My WWII coat has some wear at the collar, but it is not enough that I want to do anything about it. Gives it character. I imagine a good reweaver could do something with it. Depending on the size of repair, it might be inexpensive, or relatively expensive. Find a shop that specializes in reweaving and see what they say after having seen the coat.

WWII coats in good condition are increasingly difficult to find. Take care of it by brushing it often, don't eat while wearing it (moths are attracted to the food crumbs), have it cleaned at the end of the season (to protect from moths), and always hang it in a moth protected closet. Moth protectors can be found for five or six dollars, and last for three months. My wife and I protect all of our closets as peacoats are squirreled away in all of them.

 

[dougie]

Thanks for the advice. I'm not really inclined to go to a reweaver as I agree about the coat having character. It's got a lot of character, too: the stencil is still visible in a couple of places and when I was inspecting the coat after I got home I pulled a mercury-head dime and a franc from the lining, both of which are dated 1941. Pretty cool, huh? I think the thing deserves to stay as 'issued.'

 

[Asudef]

Sorry to dig up an old thread but I found this forum through a search on pea coats as I'm trying to gain more information and this has to be the most informative page I've found so far. I'm trying to to make an educated purchase but I still have some questions to ask.

1) Did vintage navy pea coats ever have chin/neck straps to hold up the collars?
2)Also were there any style of coats made with a double breasted 6 or 8 button front but have the extra two for the neck spaced farther up?

I saw these while browsing ebay one day and I sort of like the style, but at the same time I want to get an authentic navy pea coat so I would just like to clarify.

Another question, are there only US Navy pea coats or is it possible to find BRN pea coats/reefer jackets as well?
I'm also looking for a BRN Duffel coat as well but this is neither the time nor the place

Thanks.

 

[Peacoat]

The answer to both of your questions is yes. But many of the current repros also have eight button fronts (WWII style). If you can send me a picture of the tag, and of the front of the jacket, I can give you a good idea of the date. Or, if you can give me the ebay number, I can look at it and see what info is available. Or, just give me the size you are looking at on ebay, and I can find it. For some reason, the WWII tag was resurrected in the fifties, and I need to know how many buttons are on the front of the jacket in order to date it. The number of buttons on the front distinguishes the WWII jackets from the "modern" era jackets.

In response to your last question, the American peacoats were patterned after the Royal Navy peacoats.

 

[cneil]

A drop in quality over the years

I own two authentic United States Navy Pea Coats, one issued to my Dad in 1949, we believe it was probably new issue of product made for the Navy in WWII, but not issued. (All most ever thing in 1949 was left over from WWII, never issued, but manufactured in late 44 or 45)

The Seconded is one from my brother, Issued about 10 years ago.

Styling is very similar, but I have detected a difference, the Wool on my father’s coat is denser, it weighs more and is warmer.

No one would pick up my brothers coat and say it is light, or say it is not warm, but there is an obvious quality drop over the years, if only slight, it is still noticeable.

Unfortunately, we no longer have my dad’s 1955 Officers Pea Coat, it was longer in length.

Curtis

 

[Asudef]

Wow, thanks for the quick responses!

So if yes to both questions, were there any specific dates for when these two styles were produced together or has it always been available for all WWII coats? When you say 8 button, are you including the two hidden under the lapels like this one?
Or this one?

I'm not looking at any specific coats right now but I did when I first found this thread; I actually found one I liked but it measured out to be too small and I realized it wasn't navy issue. I heard the old coats were sized to be very snug, are there any guidelines to watch for when buying one?

I wasn't fortunate enough to know or have any relatives in the navy to have a coat get passed on to me though. Besides, if I got one in the navy I don't think I would want to part from it.

 

[Peacoat]

Both of these coats are what I would call a six button front. I don't count the buttons hidden under the lapel, but some might. The second coat is a 1970 coat, which has the old style dense wool. The new style, "Melton" wool coats started about 1980.

The WWII coats, and earlier, had eight button fronts--four rows of two buttons. Sometime after WWII the six button fronts were issued. Don't know the year. I have a 1949 coat with six buttons, so the eight button coats were replaced in 1949 or before. There may have been a period of transition when both were issued, as the supply of eight buttons were dwindling.

The six button coat fixed the problem of the "unruly" lapel. On the eight button coats, the top part of the lapel was too short to lie down as intended on many of the coats. With the advent of the six button coat, the top of the lapel was longer, and allowed the lapel to lie flat against the front of the coat, just below the collar.

To fit a peacoat, you should find one of your coats that is a good fit and measure it. The peacoat should be fitted so that a sweater will comfortably fit under it--at least that is the way I like to wear mine on cold days. I have a couple that are fitted more snugly for milder days, say in the forties. Lay the coat face up and flat on a bed or the floor. Measure across the chest, just under the armpits. That is the measurement that most sellers give for the chest fit. With my peacoats, I have found that if I measure as above, double that number and then subtract two, that is the stated chest size of the coat. For instance, most of my coats measure about 22 inches across the front. Double that to get 44 and subtract 2 inches for the thickness of the coat, and the chest size is 42. As a good starting point, I have found that the stated size of the coat is pretty close to what I wear.

For the sleeve measurement, most sellers measure from the seam where the sleeve joins the shoulder, down to the end of the cuff. The measurement for me, and for most unaltered 42 coats is about 26".

Although there is opinion to the contrary, I have found that sizes have remained about the same over the years. There is no appreciable difference in fit in my WWII coat and the coats from the other years I own--up to current issue.

To give you an idea for relationship between the sizes, I can wear a 40 long or a 42 regular. The 40 must be a long to get the sleeves long enough and to have the proper overall length. It is a snug fit without a sweater underneath. The 42 regular gives me a little more overall room, and has the proper length, both overall and sleeve length. It also has more room in the sleeves for elbow and arm movement. I can comfortably wear a sweater under it for additional warmth on cold days--30's and below. My normal coat size is a 42 regular, so the peacoats are sized accurately. I am 6 feet tall and 180 lbs.

For more discussions about peacoat fitting, IrishDon, a seller on ebay, can give you some tips. He sells a lot of peacoats, mostly current issue, and gives good advice, with a few exceptions. His information on color is not exactly accurate. For instance, all peacoats are not black, only those since 1980. And he has a few other inaccuracies--especially with respect to vintage coats, but it will give you some additional information.

A poster above mentioned a longer coat for officers. The officers, and chiefs, could wear "bridge coats." The bridge coats have gold buttons, are slightly below the knee in length and are not nearly as thick as a peacoat. They come with a zip out lining, which makes them substantially warmer, if needed. The only tag I could find in my bridge coat was the "union tag," so no other information about that coat is available.

I didn't intend to write a chapter in a book when I got started, but it just sort of went that way. If you have more questions, I will be glad to answer them.

 

[Dakota]

I have two WWII Naval pea coats and both of them have 10 buttons on the front, plus the chin strap under the collar on one side. I have another vintage Naval pea coat with 8 buttons, two of which are under the collar when it is folded down. It has black corduroy lined pockets. The tag reads: COAT, MAN'S WOOL KERSEY, DSA 100-4212, 100% WOOL, SIZE 40, FSN 8405-268-8615. If anyone has any idea about how old this one might be, please let me know. From what I understand, the ones with the black corduroy lined pockets are very rare. I've only seen two of them on ebay in the last 3 or 4 years.

Dakota

 

[Dakota]

I have a vintage Naval pea coat. It has 8 buttons, two of which are under the collar when folded down. It has black cordoroy lined pockets. The tag reads: COAT, MAN'S WOOL KERSEY, DSA 100-4212, 100% WOOL, SIZE 40, FSN 8405-268-8615. If you have any idea as to how old it might be, please let me know.

Dakota

They can't be dated by the buttons, but I can date them with information from a tag and some other features on the coat. If you want a thick heavy wool, you will want a coat manufactured prior to 1980 as that is when the changeover to "Melton" wool was made. The new coats are probably as warm as the old coats as there is insulation used inside the coat to compensate for the lighter wool. The old wool is more dense, and because of that, is more wind resistant. Maybe more water resistant as well.

E-bay has an excellent selection of peacoats, and usually has a supply of buttons as well. To cut through the garbage, go to men's clothing, outerwear (I believe) and search for "peacoat" and "pea coat." They are spelled both ways. Don't know what the selection is these days, as I haven't looked at them in several months.

My wife has restricted me from bringing home any more peacoats. She says too many is way more than enough. But if I find one that needs a home, I can always find room for it.

If you want help in dating one, let me know. A picture of the label and a description of the number and placing of the buttons is helpful.

 

[Asudef]

Thank you, this is exactly the info I was looking for and I don't mind long informative posts. It looks like I wear the same size as you
So all Navy pea coats should have chin straps? Also which year did they stop using corduroy to line the pockets?

 

[Peacoat]

I have two WWII Naval pea coats and both of them have 10 buttons on the front, plus the chin strap under the collar on one side. I have another vintage Naval pea coat with 8 buttons, two of which are under the collar when it is folded down. It has black corduroy lined pockets. The tag reads: COAT, MAN'S WOOL KERSEY, DSA 100-4212, 100% WOOL, SIZE 40, FSN 8405-268-8615. If anyone has any idea about how old this one might be, please let me know. From what I understand, the ones with the black corduroy lined pockets are very rare. I've only seen two of them on ebay in the last 3 or 4 years.

Dakota

The black corduroy in the pockets is very rare. I have never seen one. I wonder if you looked at the color in direct sunlight whether the color would be a very dark brown that appears to be black under low light conditions? If so, the explanation would be that the supplier of the corduroy got too much brown dye in the mix while manufacturing that particular batch of material. If it truly is black corduroy, then it is an anomaly that I can't explain. I would think that the contract would have been specific as to the color as well as the material used in the pockets.

The tag in your jacket is what I think of as a "transition" tag. It came after the "US NAVY" tag and before the tags that have the dates in the contract number. There was only one year that such a tag was used, so it is easy to date. You have a 1966 model peacoat. There was a rapid buildup of forces during that period of time, so that may answer how the odd color of corduroy made it to the pockets of that particular coat. I have a 1966 peacoat, and I believe it has the standard brown corduroy in the pockets.

If you get a chance, and can find some sunlight, please let me know about the color of the pockets. It is something I can add to my knowledge bank on these pieces of history.

 

[Peacoat]

Thank you, this is exactly the info I was looking for and I don't mind long informative posts. It looks like I wear the same size as you
So all Navy pea coats should have chin straps? Also which year did they stop using corduroy to line the pockets?

I believe that the chin straps were discontinued after WWII. My WWII peacoat (eight buttons showing)* has a chin strap, and my 1949 coat (six buttons showing) does not. The chin straps probably were used only on the eight button (showing) coats. When they changed to the six button coats, two buttons under the collar were used to button the lapels close to the throat, if necessary. That was later changed to one button on the right side, which was really all that was needed.

Since the beginning of time, corduroy had been used for hand warmer pocket lining in Navy peacoats. It was warm and durable. I imagine it also added a few cents extra to the cost of each jacket. The corduroy had light to medium brown ribs, although Dakota, above poster, has one with black corduroy.

In 1968 peacoats were manufactured with a white cotton lining, thus ending the reign of corduroy pockets. So, to answer your question, 1967 was the last year for the corduroy lining in the pockets. Part of the justification may have been that military men shouldn't have their hands in their pockets anyway!

________
*The coats with eight buttons showing (four rows of two buttons each) actually had two other regular size buttons hidden under the lapel, making them a ten button coat. I know, it gets confusing!

 

[Peacoat]

Please see the answer to your question under the "peacoat dating" topic.

 

[Dakota]

I looked at the pockets in the sunlight and thet are black corduroy. There is one just like it (except it is missing the tag) listed on ebay right now which is about to end. The ebay item # is 150073122921. Mine looks identical to it except mine has the tag still in it. I'm wondering how valuable they might be if indeed the black corduroy lined pocket one are very rare. Mine is a size 40 and is in very nice condition. It doesn't have any holes or rips. I found only two small moth nips in the wool which are barely noticable.

Dakota

The black corduroy in the pockets is very rare. I have never seen one. I wonder if you looked at the color in direct sunlight whether the color would be a very dark brown that appears to be black under low light conditions? If so, the explanation would be that the supplier of the corduroy got too much brown dye in the mix while manufacturing that particular batch of material. If it truly is black corduroy, then it is an anomaly that I can't explain. I would think that the contract would have been specific as to the color as well as the material used in the pockets.

The tag in your jacket is what I think of as a "transition" tag. It came after the "US NAVY" tag and the tags that have the dates in the contract number. There was only one year that such a tag was used, so it is easy to date. You have a 1966 model peacoat. There was a rapid buildup of forces during that period of time, so that may answer how the odd color of corduroy made it to the pockets of that particular coat. I have a 1966 peacoat, and I believe it has the standard brown corduroy in the pockets.

If you get a chance, and can find some sunlight, please let me know about the color of the pockets. It is something I can add to my knowledge bank on these pieces of history.