Questions about a thrifted 50s (?) 613HH Perfecto I picked up a few weeks back.

[biothermal]

Hey folks, first post on here, fingers crossed I've got the rules down but feel free to yell at me if not. I can move this over to a post in the 'Ask A Question, Get An Answer About Outerwear' thread if this is simply taking up unnecessary room.

Anyway, picked up this 613HH (I think - this is my first Schott...) at a thrift store a few weeks back for cheap. It had some obvious issues, and a delicious, musty, basement-y smell to it, but for the price I could leave it there. Easily able to nail down the neck label as a 'Late 50s, Early 60s' example, so-says the Schott 100th anniversary book.

First question, my main conundrum - dating the label vs. dating the zippers. I've got a label on this jacket that seems to be late 50s at the earliest, and I have zippers (that I've never seen on a Perfecto before, if you've seen others, let me know!) that seem to be from the late 40s at the latest. What gives? The Conmar diamond/chain pulls are pretty easy to find on other jackets, all of which I've seen to be ~40s, and the main Conmar zip (anyone seen that one before?) is chunkier than any I've seen, but looks closest to Conmar zips on military-issue jackets from the mid 40s. Is this simply a case of Schott using old zipper stock on newer jackets? Or is this jacket some kind of transitional early 50s example?

Secondly, value of restoration. Missings stars, super oxidized zippers, pulls, and snaps, dryrot, the smell... I know it could be a bit of a chore to make this jacket wearable, especially with the dryrot by the bottom of the main zip. I'd simply like to ask for opinions: is it worth it to try and get this jacket restored to wearable condition, potentially with a full zipper replacement, or is the historical value as-is more important? I'm not a leather jacket collector, and honestly this one doesn't fit me too well, so having it in its current state really doesn't do anything for me. If selling it could get me the funds to take the plunge on a contemporary jacket that does fit me, I think that's what I'd be happiest doing.

Thanks in advance, folks. If you want any more pics I'm happy to provide!

 

[Aloysius]

This isn't a 613HH (a very recent though now discontinued) model.

This is an actual 1950s 618. I don't think it would be a terribly difficult restoration. Will need some cleaning and elbow grease. Schott will likely send you new stars for free and their current pattern for a fur collar still fits these.

That said, I can totally get passing on the headache and using it to fund a modern jacket. If you like the look, the modern Perfecto I like best is the 613SH. I made a thread about it here. Similar pattern to the 50s-70s models, but of course brand new and with a wonderful horsehide.

@jeo is another guy who knows these well so tagging him.

 

[biothermal]

This isn't a 613HH (a very recent though now discontinued) model.

This is an actual 1950s 618. I don't think it would be a terribly difficult restoration. Will need some cleaning and elbow grease. Schott will likely send you new stars for free and their current pattern for a fur collar still fits these.

That said, I can totally get passing on the headache and using it to fund a modern jacket. If you like the look, the modern Perfecto I like best is the 613SH. I made a thread about it here. Similar pattern to the 50s-70s models, but of course brand new and with a wonderful horsehide.

@jeo is another guy who knows these well so tagging him.

Appreciate the reply!

I suppose I shouldn't have used 613HH in the title - I thought that was a foolproof naming convention - my bad! So, even with the stars (although removed) and the lack of snaps on the collar, you'd call this jacket a 618? I know the formula, so-to-speak, has changed over time with how Perfectos are named, but I did try to be thorough in my research-ha! Serves me right. I suppose I should've just stuck to "one-star perfecto" and called it a day.

 

[Aloysius]

Yeah the 613 name came later, to indicate the stars after the 618 lost them and got a snapped lapel.

 

[jacketjunkie]

Cool find. New zipper installed by a professional who doesnt botcher the jacket in the process should run at around 150 USD, you will get more than that re-selling, little you can do wrong here.

 

[Monitor]

Yep, all correct above. This is the original Schott motorcycle jacket, before the model numbering. It doesn't actually correspond to any of the contemporary styles, which does make it a fairly collectible jacket, despite all the shortcomings.

As for whether it is worth restoring it... If you can't wear it & since you are in fact planning on re-selling the jacket, I personally would leave it as-is because a fan / collector would want to have the job done as well as possible - Meaning the period zipper would have to be sourced & more importantly, finding a shop good enough to do this kind of restoration. All this would set you back more than you'd earn, is what I'm saying.

List it, list the issues, count the money.

 

[Rufus Dayglo]

Lovely jacket!

If you'd be interested in a trade... I have a 618 1960s Size 42 which is in really lovely ( too big for me sadly ), if that would fit you better? Or I have a few size 38 more modern Schott 618s!

 

[biothermal]

Yep, all correct above. This is the original Schott motorcycle jacket, before the model numbering. It doesn't actually correspond to any of the contemporary styles, which does make it a fairly collectible jacket, despite all the shortcomings.

As for whether it is worth restoring it... If you can't wear it & since you are in fact planning on re-selling the jacket, I personally would leave it as-is because a fan / collector would want to have the job done as well as possible - Meaning the period zipper would have to be sourced & more importantly, finding a shop good enough to do this kind of restoration. All this would set you back more than you'd earn, is what I'm saying.

List it, list the issues, count the money.

Understood! Seems like folks agree with that sentiment, and I think that's the direction I'm leaning - I appreciate the insight.

 

[Bahabp100]

Hey folks, first post on here, fingers crossed I've got the rules down but feel free to yell at me if not. I can move this over to a post in the 'Ask A Question, Get An Answer About Outerwear' thread if this is simply taking up unnecessary room.

Anyway, picked up this 613HH (I think - this is my first Schott...) at a thrift store a few weeks back for cheap. It had some obvious issues, and a delicious, musty, basement-y smell to it, but for the price I could leave it there. Easily able to nail down the neck label as a 'Late 50s, Early 60s' example, so-says the Schott 100th anniversary book.

First question, my main conundrum - dating the label vs. dating the zippers. I've got a label on this jacket that seems to be late 50s at the earliest, and I have zippers (that I've never seen on a Perfecto before, if you've seen others, let me know!) that seem to be from the late 40s at the latest. What gives? The Conmar diamond/chain pulls are pretty easy to find on other jackets, all of which I've seen to be ~40s, and the main Conmar zip (anyone seen that one before?) is chunkier than any I've seen, but looks closest to Conmar zips on military-issue jackets from the mid 40s. Is this simply a case of Schott using old zipper stock on newer jackets? Or is this jacket some kind of transitional early 50s example?

Secondly, value of restoration. Missings stars, super oxidized zippers, pulls, and snaps, dryrot, the smell... I know it could be a bit of a chore to make this jacket wearable, especially with the dryrot by the bottom of the main zip. I'd simply like to ask for opinions: is it worth it to try and get this jacket restored to wearable condition, potentially with a full zipper replacement, or is the historical value as-is more important? I'm not a leather jacket collector, and honestly this one doesn't fit me too well, so having it in its current state really doesn't do anything for me. If selling it could get me the funds to take the plunge on a contemporary jacket that does fit me, I think that's what I'd be happiest doing.

Thanks in advance, folks. If you want any more pics I'm happy to provide!

CAll or email Jerri at jerri@schottnyc.com . They will do the best zipper repair / stars / pulls etc for reasonable $. For cleaning I found Arrow in st Louis whic Schott recommend . They done a couple musty jackets for me . Also you’ll find a portable Ozone generator to be worth the money . It would be worth IMHO 8-1500 ish restored but not much less unrestored maybe 6-1000$

 

[jeo]

Great find!

So what you have here is a mid 50’s horsehide Perfecto motorcycle jacket.

The model number 618 didn’t come out until the very late 50’s with the introduction of the steerhide hide “ribbon” label with the number 6 denoting steerhide and the numbers 18 referring to this design.

Schott didn’t have catalogs back in the earlier 50’s so no one knows what this jacket was called. The Schott book refers to them as “Men’s deluxe horshide motorcycle jacket”. There’s a story in the book of a gentleman who bought one of these in 1956 and he said they were referred to as “one stars” or Perfectos.

I’m not the biggest Conmar expert but I do think that’s a late 40’s Conmar main zip as well as sleeve zips. It’s very common to see later jackets using older hardware they had laying around.

There were two black horsehide Perfecto labels. One earlier and smaller (1.75” x 1.5”) used on various Schott jackets made between the mid 30’s to early/mid 50s. Then there is a larger (1.5” x 2.5”) black horsehide Perfecto label used on jackets from mid 50’s to late 50’s. Yours is the larger, later version.

I recently bought jackets with both labels. The earlier version with the smaller label has a one piece back. The later version with the larger label has a bottom kidney panel. The earlier version fits very short and boxy compared to the later version, especially in the back. The later version fits exactly like the first ribbon label steerhide perfectos.

Here are mine that I bought recently.

First is the earlier version (early 50’s) with the smaller label and one piece back.

Next is the same as yours, mid 50’s with the larger label and bottom kidney panel.

With regards to restoration. There’d be two reasons you’d want to restore. First would be to wear, but you’re saying it doesn’t fit you. Second would be to sell for a higher price and it would be a matter of if it’s worth it for you. You mentioned you got it cheap so I’m sure you’ll do well if you decide to sell it. If you decide to sell I would typically say to leave as is and let the new owner do their thing, they may want to source a particular zipper etc…

Hope this helps!

 

[AHP91]

Here we go again

 

[Marc mndt]

Here we go again

?

 

[Aloysius]

?

I think AHP is concerned we might be once again providing unpaid product research for a seller.

 

[jeo]

I actually ended up buying the jacket. Just so happens that the OP lives in Philly so we were able to meet up. Was more than happy to provide unpaid product research, even if it wasn’t me who ended up buying it. OP made out real nice and I got a great deal. Win, win. Everyone is happy. Similar outcome to the Buco attic find.

I have a feeling the goodwill is why I ended up with the jacket.

@biothermal was nice meeting you man and thank you again!

 

[Aloysius]

Similar outcome to the Buco attic find.

The sizing there still makes me sad but I’m glad it fit Marc!

 

[biothermal]

@biothermal was nice meeting you man and thank you again!

Heck yeah man! Thank you! It was a real pleasure meeting you and I hope we cross paths again.

 

[Aloysius]

Heck yeah man! Thank you! It was a real pleasure meeting you and I hope we cross paths again.

Welcome!

 

[photo2u]

Friend, do not do a full zip restore. Just do the male pin side. I have the matching side for that jacket. Those were very nice zips. There are many post regarding conditioning the teeth in this forum.
Good luck with the project. By the way, You can do the zipper yourself. It is not that hard truly. No machine neede.