Question on WWII Jacket Art

[stillwell]

Hi guys,
I understand that there is a jacket art thread, but I had a different question

I was thinking about painting an A-2 jacket, but I am really not sure what to put on it
I'm not sure whether I should remake a design from an actual aircraft?
or should I just make up my own?

Also, I was looking at the early part of the war, and were there any restrictions on Nose Art and Jacket Art during 42' and 43?

just out of curiosity

thanks!

 

[mdove]

IMHO, I wold not put any design from an actual aircraft on a jacket. Reason; Each jacket was special to the individual crewmen. IMHO, it is taking their "art and honor". To me it is like someone taking my combat patch and using it. You did not earn it, you have no right to it.

 

[Dan Rodemsky]

I disagree. If you are under 80 years old, nobody is going to think you flew it in the war. It is a piece of clothing. Make it yours. You could copy an old nose art, or have something new commissioned. Have fun with it!

Check out these guys.

http://www.flightjacket.com/customnoseart.html

 

[Stanley Doble]

So far as I know the jacket art and nose art were unofficial, made by artists from the ranks and done to the specs of the airman or crew. The CO would have something to say if you went too far. The pilot would have the last word on what went on the plane. The airman would have his jacket done to suit himself.

The artists had to scrounge for materials. Often using house paint and the like. Have seen nose art on PBY Catalina sea planes done by an artist who had evidently never painted anything but an outhouse, using black paint and nothing else. He copied characters from the comics like Sad Sack, Lonesome Polecat and Sadie Hawkins. The planes were stationed in Iceland during WW2 on submarine patrol. They are undoubtedly the worst nose art I have ever seen.

So don't be afraid to have a go. Mdove has a point, although I would look on a copy more as an homage or tribute. Still, copying someone else's work is corny and low class. Express your own ideas and personality.

 

[JollyGreenSlugg]

I've painted a few jackets, and they've all been based on original work.

Here's my most recent work. I've long-enjoyed the story of "Flak Bait", the B-26 Marauder in the Smithsonian Institute...

...so I painted this Cooper A-2 with the name;

I've also painted the shoulder patches and chest-mounted squadron patch.

I don't see it as disrespectful of the original men involved, but a way to generate interest in their story and the history involved. There's no way that anyone would be likely to think that I'm claiming a first-hand connection.

Anyway, I'm interested in peoples' thoughts. In response to the OP's question, if I saw an example of nose-art that appealed to me, I'd paint it.

Cheers,
Matt

 

[Phantomfixer]

Very interesting topic IMO. I would (if I could paint) copy original artwork. That alone would honor the guys who fought. There is a link to military heritage but no claim is made to it being a badge. Heck the jacket itself is a badge or symbol. I am not going to stop wearing a jacket for the same thought process.... This is going down the road of can I wear surplus military gear...
Paint away I say....
John

Matt awesome artwork BTW!!!

 

[Tony B]

I Used to paint A2 and headbanger jackets for people years ago and for the A2s I had the first book on this page.

http://www.dunrobincastle.com/Nose_Art/Books_NA.htm

"Vintage Aircraft Nose Art [Ready for Duty]" by Gary M. Valant. It was published in 1987 by Motorbooks International - ISBN 0-87938-266-X.

It has loads of the normal plane stuff and also a good selection of period jackets and is worth getting if you can. Google the ISBN and you will find some for sale, if not motorbooks has a paperback out which I imagine is an abridged version.

Regards Tony

 

[stillwell]

Thank you guys very much for your input, I really appreciate it!

I'm still deciding as of now, I wanted to make the jacket up from a specific squadron, which kind of limited my "copying nose art" options
I was conflicted because it'd be nice to make up my own nose art design, but I don't want it to be too cliche'
thank you guys again

Tony B- I actually do have Mr. Valant's book back home, I was going to look through it when I go home for Christmas (I'm at college)
My dad bought it a while back when he used to do Nose Art on C-130s in Desert Shield/Storm, it is an excellent book!

 

[mdove]

I have no problem at all with folks wearing military surplus gear....as long as it is "sterile", that is no rank, no name, no unit patches, no US ARMY, USMC etc. If I were to see an individual wearing my combat patch, and he had not served in my unit, I may be older, but there would be hell to pay in the form of a good tongue lashing. You can pay homage and honor these airmen in other ways. Sergeant First Class (retired)US ARMY. 2 years Active duty to include service in Viet Nam and more time in the National Guard....a total of over 30 years in boots.

 

[JollyGreenSlugg]

G'day mdove,

Your views and points are noted and welcome. I think it's a fairly subjective argument and different veterans have different ideas. For me, it's about 'pretending' to be what I'm not, and I don't think anyone in rural Australia in 2011 is going to think that I'm claiming to be what I'm not. I don't add names or rank to any of my work. I've spoken with WW2 veterans who have given me their 'blessing', as it were, to do what I do.

May I ask where you stand on re-enactors? I don't re-enact, but I know people who do. I respect your views, but I don't know that I agree with them. I don't know that there's a hard-and-fast rule, but I'm certainly open to correction.

Cheers,
Matt

 

[mdove]

No name, No rank, No Service branch....no problem. Re-enactors, no problem. If the WW II vets have given you their blessing...NO PROBLEM. My major concern is this: Branch of service, i.e. US ARMY etc. when on the gear, makes it uniform, (Not my view, big Army's view). If a guy is wearing the trousers and blouse (shirt) he is technically in uniform. I have several uniforms left, and lots of other gear. Some real nice snivel gear (wet/cold weather gear), as long as no US ARMY or name or rank on it I would wear it. Too many times I have seen folks out in military gear making fools of themselves and disgracing the uniform. This is why military folks cannot go to bars etc when in uniform. Stopping at the grocery store or place where alcohol not served no problem. I think once you have served and worn one of the uniforms of your country you will understand, and maybe agree.

If you have any more questions about my views please feel free to ask.

 

[Stearmen]

A2 No Big Deal

To a certain extent, the Air Force has brought down the honer of the A2. Last Friday, we were at A Taste of Philly, when four Officers strolled in, dressed in flight gear, Nomex suit, flight boots and A2s. As I looked a little closer at their calling cards, I realized none of them were on flight duty, they were computer jockeys. It used to be forbidden to wear flight gear off the flight line, now personnel sitting in front of a computer screen wear it! By the way, Mdove, you sure took the long way round for your 20, LOL!

 

[Phantomfixer]

were they the new breed of drone pilots?

 

[stillwell]

mdmovie: I do agree your point about not wearing certain parts of the uniform. I tend to wear military clothing for recreation, but it's always just a jacket or cold weather gear and none of them have any patches.
I reenact as well, but most reenactors who actually wear the insignia do it with respect.

Those guys in the zoom suits may very well have been RPA pilots or air battle managers on JSTARS or AWACS
I think they recently changed it so that anyone with a rating could get a jacket.
My dad was flying C-130s when they authorized the A-2s. It was originally just for combat pilots, which included my dad's unit. The MAC guys got all huffy because they wanted jackets too, so they eventually just started giving them to anyone with a set of wings. A lot of fighter jocks were pissed.

 

[mdove]

I did my National Guard time from 1984-2008...24 years in the Guard and the 2 AD. I took my time. When I retired I was the oldest NCO in the OHIO ARMY NATIONAL GUARD. I was 61. I think I was about the last combat vet from 'nam in the OHARNG. It was my pleasure, honor and priveledge to have the opportunity to serve as long as I did. If I would have been able to stay longer...I would have.

 

[Stearmen]

Desk Jockeys

were they the new breed of drone pilots?

No! Strictly desk bound. I have seen this a lot lately. Incidentally, my younger cousin is a LC in charge of the drone jockeys. Not here though.

 

[JollyGreenSlugg]

Thanks folks,

Your thoughts are appreciated and welcome.

Cheers,
Matt

 

[Fairlane]

As far as the art work is concerned, any thing that you like is ok, as was stated before, it is about you would like to see, of course.
As far as the jackets are concerned, repple deppel types have been trading for flight gear since Doolittle was a Lieutenant.
Cheers!