Question about fountain pens

[hatguy1]

Well I'm 1 and 1. The Cross works like a charm after soaking it. The wood turned pen works worse now - as in doesn't flow ink at all! - after soaking. Hmmm....

 

[robrinay]

You can blow both ways through the section - from the nib end and from the cartridge end - try blowing from the nib end on the wooden one. Also if you can't find a rubber bulb like the ones on old car horns that just fits the section then a rubber tube and hypodermic without the needle could also be rigged up to do this and flush the pen both ways.
Teepol is neutral - neither acid nor alkali so won't corrode metal parts. I'd strongly advise against using Ammonia as it will strip varnish dissolve aluminium and digest some of the early types of plastic used in vintage pens. Lastly be careful not to soak vintage plastic pens for more than a few minutes as some are made from milk based protein and will melt if soaked for too long e.g. Early Conway Stewart fountain pens

 

[HudsonHawk]

I'd strongly advise against using Ammonia as it will strip varnish dissolve aluminium and digest some of the early types of plastic used in vintage pens.

Most commercial pen cleaners contain ammonia. Pretty much all recommended "home made" solutions do as well. Teepol and other detergents can leave residue, but ammonia will not (which is why it's used as a glass cleaner). And we're not talking about soaking an aluminum pen in concentrated ammonia solution. If one is squeamish about using it, by all means, do not. But used correctly, it is no more harmful than any other cleaning solution. And don't ever mix cleaners...like say ammonia and bleach. Nasty things can happen.

 

[hatguy1]

Thanks. I'm trying another soak tonight, just to see if it'll make any difference. If not, I'll look into going "bulb shopping."

Stand by for an update.

 

[robrinay]

Most commercial pen cleaners contain ammonia. Pretty much all recommended "home made" solutions do as well. Teepol and other detergents can leave residue, but ammonia will not (which is why it's used as a glass cleaner). And we're not talking about soaking an aluminum pen in concentrated ammonia solution. If one is squeamish about using it, by all means, do not. But used correctly, it is no more harmful than any other cleaning solution. And don't ever mix
cleaners...like say ammonia and bleach. Nasty things can happen.

Ok that's sound advice - but it needs qualifying - here's an expert opinion from Fountainpennetwork - credit to PJohnP
From a chemist and chemical engineer's perspective, one of the key elements in any discussion of chemical attack on materials is concentration, and then arising from that discussion, duration of exposure.

A saturated ammonia solution (highest possible concentration) in water is relatively aggressive, and can have effects on polymers and metals both, especially if the duration of exposure is lengthy. However, a low concentration of ammonia will have drastically reduced effects if any for the same duration. By controlling concentration and duration of exposure carefully, the use of ammonia can be advantageous for cleaning.

Household ammonia is a relatively strong concentration, if not maximum, and can certainly have effects on metals and polymers with lengthy exposure periods. David Nishimura has quite succinctly addressed this by advocating short periods of exposure. Reducing the concentration by some reasonable factor, say, 10:1 would allow for a somewhat longer exposure without likely deleterious effects. But that doesn't mean soaking the components in dilute ammonia for several days !

I can easily understand why manufacturers who have product warranty issues recommend against the use of ammonia completely, as some consumer might well soak a pen in household strength ammonia for a week and find some significant deterioration in the pen. Such "repairs" are almost like a car owner removing pine sap from the body with a bucket of MEK and sandpaper - it would work just dandily with respect to removing the sap, but it's probably "non-ideal" for the car paint job...

As a corollary, consider that many people clean pens with tepid/warmish water, but not boiling hot water. Why ? Too much heat damages the pen, where a moderate level of temperature allows the tepid water to dissolve dried ink. Similarly, if diluted ammonia solution is used with defined short periods of exposure (again, see David Nishimura's comments), it's probably a reasonable approach for the typical owner with some dried ink/gunk issues in their pens, but it needs to be considered with a reasonable level of thought. Like any "repair" operation, success is entirely dependent on careful and cautious planned actions, not slipping into the quickest easiest approach for expediency.



John P.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Ok that's sound advice - but it needs qualifying - here's an expert opinion from Fountainpennetwork - credit to PJohnP
From a chemist and chemical engineer's perspective, one of the key elements in any discussion of chemical attack on materials is concentration, and then arising from that discussion, duration of exposure.

A saturated ammonia solution (highest possible concentration) in water is relatively aggressive, and can have effects on polymers and metals both, especially if the duration of exposure is lengthy. However, a low concentration of ammonia will have drastically reduced effects if any for the same duration. By controlling concentration and duration of exposure carefully, the use of ammonia can be advantageous for cleaning.

Household ammonia is a relatively strong concentration, if not maximum, and can certainly have effects on metals and polymers with lengthy exposure periods. David Nishimura has quite succinctly addressed this by advocating short periods of exposure. Reducing the concentration by some reasonable factor, say, 10:1 would allow for a somewhat longer exposure without likely deleterious effects. But that doesn't mean soaking the components in dilute ammonia for several days !

I can easily understand why manufacturers who have product warranty issues recommend against the use of ammonia completely, as some consumer might well soak a pen in household strength ammonia for a week and find some significant deterioration in the pen. Such "repairs" are almost like a car owner removing pine sap from the body with a bucket of MEK and sandpaper - it would work just dandily with respect to removing the sap, but it's probably "non-ideal" for the car paint job...

As a corollary, consider that many people clean pens with tepid/warmish water, but not boiling hot water. Why ? Too much heat damages the pen, where a moderate level of temperature allows the tepid water to dissolve dried ink. Similarly, if diluted ammonia solution is used with defined short periods of exposure (again, see David Nishimura's comments), it's probably a reasonable approach for the typical owner with some dried ink/gunk issues in their pens, but it needs to be considered with a reasonable level of thought. Like any "repair" operation, success is entirely dependent on careful and cautious planned actions, not slipping into the quickest easiest approach for expediency.



John P.

Absolutely, concentrated ammonia would be bad, especially for a long soak. I was really talking about adding something like Windex, in which the ammonia was already diluted to 0.05%, or a just a few drops of household solution to your water flush. Personally, I avoid chemicals all together and stick to water and blowing throw the nib, as you mention. It sometimes takes a while, but it eventually gets you there, even if I end up with blue fingers.

 

[robrinay]

Blue fingers - me too big smile! The best thing about vintage pens over modern ones is that with a short lesson in repair and the correct equipment they can be taken apart and the feed section and nib soaked and brushed clean before reassembly. Mind you even simple tasks can go wrong as I found to my cost when I recently replaced a pressure bar for a friend - the wrong way round and the section wouldn't fit back into the barrel. It took ages to unclip it and turn it round watched closely by the owner of the pen who I'd assured it was a quick easy job - very embarrassing!

 

[hatguy1]

Thanks. I'm trying another soak tonight, just to see if it'll make any difference. If not, I'll look into going "bulb shopping."

Stand by for an update.

SUCCESS!!! My Woodturningz pen is writing again just like when I got it.

 

[robrinay]

Great news - well done for persevering with it.

 

[hatguy1]

Thanks. And thanks to everyone on this thread for their great advice.

 

[hatguy1]

Ya know; I think the paper of my journal must be coated with something that clogs up the pens. I can't get a week's worth of writing with them without them getting "intermittent" again. Wax?

 

[HudsonHawk]

Ya know; I think the paper of my journal must be coated with something that clogs up the pens. I can't get a week's worth of writing with them without them getting "intermittent" again. Wax?

Could be. I find cheaper pens tend to clog easier, but that's just anectdotal . How long do you go between uses? Do you store them nib up?

 

[hatguy1]

Could be. I find cheaper pens tend to clog easier, but that's just anectdotal . How long do you go between uses? Do you store them nib up?

No, I lay them flat next to my journal (which I write in with them almost every night).

One of them is a Cross cartridge ($35) and the other is a WoodTurningz ($55-$60)

 

[HudsonHawk]

No, I lay them flat next to my journal (which I write in with them almost every night).

One of them is a Cross cartridge ($35) and the other is a WoodTurningz ($55-$60)

You might try storing them nib up. That usually helps keep the ink from clogging, though that frequent of usage shouldn't be an ink drying problem. I've had similar issues with pens, but have just written them off to being cheap pens. I don't have any issues with higher quality pens, even after weeks of non use. Of course, it could be a journal paper issue, as you suspect. Hard to say. Theoretically, the nib doesn't even have to touch the paper for it to write, but most of us push down to some degree. Is it only on this particular journal, or do you see the same issues when writing on all material?

 

[hatguy1]

The problem's shown up the most on this journal.

 

[foamy]

Then I would suspect the paper. If you find any kind of build-up on your nib—it's certainly the paper. You can/will notice a difference between ink flow and crap on the nib. Different inks have varying characteristics, but paper coatings show up as as crud on your nib. If you don't find crud, try a different ink.

 

[hatguy1]

Then I would suspect the paper. If you find any kind of build-up on your nib—it's certainly the paper. You can/will notice a difference between ink flow and crap on the nib. Different inks have varying characteristics, but paper coatings show up as as crud on your nib. If you don't find crud, try a different ink.

I used one of the pens to send a card this weekend. It took it a bit to get flowing again, but got mostly there by the time the card was addressed inside and out. I'm leaning toward the paper, but the investigation continues.

 

[BriarWolf]

So folks, a question. I have long wanted to carry a fountain pen, but am absolutely terrified of one leaking and ruining my good suits. Is this concern in any way realistic?

 

[Stanley Doble]

Yes it is especially with cheap pens. Get a good pen, do not fill too full, and be careful and you will probably be all right. Also carry the pen in your shirt pocket, it hurts less to throw away a stained shirt than ruin a suit.

 

[Nobert]

So folks, a question. I have long wanted to carry a fountain pen, but am absolutely terrified of one leaking and ruining my good suits. Is this concern in any way realistic?

Also, maybe go for one with a snap on cap. For reasons that I can't explain beyond my mantra of "Stupid physics," screw-tops seem to have a propensity to work themselves loose more easily, leaving one with an uncapped pen worming its way through one's pocket, drooling on itself and everything about.