Question about 1911 Campaign Hat cords

[Naphtali]

1911 Campaign Hats were, more or less, available in a large range of sizes. How were hat cords adjusted to fit varying hat crown circumferences?

 

[Bob Smalser]

The cords adjust by holding the ball and pulling on each acorn.

And the neckband or chin strap is looped onto the cord, this one on an earlier style hat.

 

[J.T.Marcus]

The cord is one piece, wrapped around the hat. The two ends cross through a bead (front and center), and a few inches of each end protrude from the bead. (Each end has an "acorn" terminal.) Since the string slides through the bead, each cord is, in fact, adjustable.

Edit:

Bob, I seem to have been posting at the same time you were. Maybe between the two of us, we've communicated the idea to anyone who hasn't actually held an acorn cord.

 

["Skeet" McD]

Well....now that someone asked...

Not to commit a highjack here, but hoping that all those interested in the first question might also be interested in this one--and those who had an answer to the first might also have the answer to it:

I purchased a WWI campaign hat to wear as (presumed) army surplus or a private purchase campaign hat while hunting in the "1920s". The repro I purchased does not have eyelets or a slit to pass the chinstrap through to a hat cord...if some period hats were made this way, did the soldier just MAKE a slit and go ahead as you describe?

Also, with the chinstrap mounted this way, it seems it would always have had to be in use; was it run around to the back of the head and lodged under the swell of the skull when not wanted around the chin, or something else? The repro chinstrap (from WPG) has nipple snaps to form the loops intended to go around the hat cord, so it could, I suppose be mounted and dismounted...although that seems rather fussy.

I'm not a military reeanactor for this period, so I hope those more knowledgeable will bear with the questions and set me straight if I have purchased...things that are not, in fact, repros....

Thanks in advance,
"Skeet"

 

[Bob Smalser]

I'm hardly an expert on vintage campaign hats, but I wore a campaign hat in the boy scouts back in the 1950's and later ran an outfit with drill sergeants who wore campaign hats. All of these hats had oblong brim eyelets to pass a strap through to adjust either as a neck band or a chin strap.

A hat without one is unusual.....perhaps some of the US Park Service or police hats didn't have one.

Today's DI's don't wear a colored hat cord depicting branch of service, they just wear the neck strap. No commissioned officer in the Army today wears a campaign hat, but some Marine Corps officers commanding training outfits and rifle teams do, and I believe they still wear the gold officer's hat cord and attached neck band.

Here's a vintage hat, except it looks like it has a silver Warrant Officer cord, and officers wore their rank insignia on the front of the hat, not regimental insignia.

 

[deanglen]

Hey, Bob! A 7 3/8 Long Oval M1911 Campaign hat? I thought they were all round crowns like dinner plates. Nice to see one. Nice one, too!








dean

 

[Bob Smalser]

....all round crowns like dinner plates.....

What I find interesting is nobody I ever knew in the real Army ever called one of these a "M1911 campaign hat", as they were part of an integrated uniform and load bearing equipment change listed in the old field manuals as the "equipments of 1910", and if the hats had a model or "M" designation, nobody used it.

"M1911" is as far as I know, strictly collector jargon. The soldiers who actually wore these wouldn't know what you were talking about. These were "campaign hats", "brown rounds" and later "Smokey-the-Bears" and "DI Hat" or "The Hat". "Under the Hat", means serving as a Drill Sergeant in a training unit.

 

[VickHick]

Having been a Trooper with the Louisiana State Police for the past 19yrs I have worn campaign or smokey hats since coming on the job. The cord,acorns ,and strap are not easy to get adjusted. Some of the guys will take a piece of plastic toothpick, stick it into the centerbead and break it off so it doesn't show. This will hold the cord in place so you don't have to loop the ends around and foward. Thus creating a lower profile and appearance. As for the chin or back strap. The hat is worn with a foward cant and the band is placed on the back of the head. This will give you the DI look which is much more professional.

 

[gtdean48]

I'm an Eagle Scout & serve on the District Advancement Committee for the Chattahoochee District of the Atlanta Area Council, BSA, & have a cheap wool version. Where is the best place to get something close to the earlier Stetson versions? Mine is 7 5/8 & I need a Long Oval because a Hat Jack doesn't seem to do the trick on this very round wool model. TIA

 

[Bob Smalser]

Call Stratton and see if they'll make one for you from a 100% beaver hood. They used to do that for special orders, and they were nice felts.

Otherwise Stratton's service felts today are largely cardboardy junk.

http://www.strattonhats.com/

You also find vintage officer's hats occasionally on eBay. Officers have always been required to buy their own uniforms, and Stetson, Mallory, Dobbs, Bailey and others made campaign hats in high-grade felts priced accordingly.

The BSA hats I remember had leather hat bands with the BSA insignia stamped all the way around the perimeter. I believe I have one of those BSA leather stamps if you need one.

 

[Naphtali]

Call Stratton and see if they'll make one for you from a 100% beaver hood. They used to do that for special orders, and they were nice felts.

Otherwise Stratton's service felts today are largely cardboardy junk. . . .

Stratton makes two quality levels of fur felt Campaign Hats, not including the beaver you have identified. Their more expensive version incorporates significantly thicker fur felt than their standard version. You are correct, however, that the heavier hat is very rigid. Isn't that how Campaign Hats are supposed to be? I've never seen a training non-com with a floppy brimmed hat. The only Campaign Hats I've seen with floppy brims have been wool felt (old) military issue -- oh, yes, and Lee Marvin's hat in Richard Brooks' "The Professionals" (1966).

 

[gtdean48]

Thanks Bob. I've got the band on a cardboardy junk one now!

Call Stratton and see if they'll make one for you from a 100% beaver hood. They used to do that for special orders, and they were nice felts.

Otherwise Stratton's service felts today are largely cardboardy junk.

http://www.strattonhats.com/

You also find vintage officer's hats occasionally on eBay. Officers have always been required to buy their own uniforms, and Stetson, Mallory, Dobbs, Bailey and others made campaign hats in high-grade felts priced accordingly.

The BSA hats I remember had leather hat bands with the BSA insignia stamped all the way around the perimeter. I believe I have one of those BSA leather stamps if you need one.

 

[stevyn]

Hat Cords

Howdy
I've lately seen a lot of so called original hat cords on Ebay. But non seem to match any War Department color coding for between 1889-1936. Or am I missing something? Fer instance the Med branch is sposed to be just maroon but the 1 shown is maroon with white? keeper and acorn, which dosnt match anything i've found. Is this in fact a bogus cord?
Thanks for getting me straight on these.
Stevyn[huh]

 

[Sam Craig]

I'm an Eagle Scout & serve on the District Advancement Committee for the Chattahoochee District of the Atlanta Area Council, BSA, & have a cheap wool version. Where is the best place to get something close to the earlier Stetson versions? Mine is 7 5/8 & I need a Long Oval because a Hat Jack doesn't seem to do the trick on this very round wool model. TIA

Does the national park service still use Stetsons?

They used to

If there's a park near you, ask.

I know that when I was doing Indian War reenacting, the NPS guys had a great fur felt campaign hat that was produced for the NPS by Stetson ... and I presume they still do.

 

[Matt Deckard]

I believe they are wearing Stratton hats.

 

[Widebrim]

Today's DI's don't wear a colored hat cord depicting branch of service, they just wear the neck strap. No commissioned officer in the Army today wears a campaign hat, but some Marine Corps officers commanding training outfits and rifle teams do, and I believe they still wear the gold officer's hat cord and attached neck band.

While it's true that Army Drill Sergeants do not wear a cord depicting branch of service, some do wear cords (I believe silver) which are awarded to them if they are voted top Drill Sergeant of a particular cycle. One of mine did in Basic Combat Training at Ft. Wood. By the way, our SDI (Senior Drill Instructor, the old term) carried the nickname, "Smoke," perhaps a reference to Smokey Bear...

 

[AlterEgo]

The National Park Service hats are made by Stratton, and without the benefit of both its fur felt qualities in hand, based on pics and descriptions, it appears the standard-issue NPS hat is of the lesser quality--nothing to write home about. Bob mentioned Stratton might still do special orders out of BEAVER. Now, that, I'd be interested in.

Back when there was still a lot of real army surplus at army surplus stores, the one in my town had a nice campaign hat that hung inside a glass cabinet on the wall behind the counter along with a uniform and gun. I wanted that hat so bad I could spit, but the owner said it was for display only, not for sale.

I was in and out of there at least once a month with my dad or on my bike with my buddy, and the first time I came in with my new Akubra Aussie Military Hat I'd gotten while on vacation, the guy had a whole new attitude about me. I called it a "campaign hat" (that's what my dad and granddad called it, and I called it that myself up until not that many years ago), and the owner and I would always get into a good natured banter about what a "real" campaign hat was.

Anyway, that led to his letting me try on his US military-issue campaign hat in the cabinet. Not only was it in near perfect condition, super-thick fur felt, brim rigid but still pliable, but it was also a perfect fit! I begged him to sell it to me, and my dad even made a special trip in there by himself to try to wheedle him into selling it.

Well, next time I was in, the owner finally told me the whole story: It had been the hat of his dad, a captain through much of WWI, but a bird colonel by war's end. In fact, the owner had his entire uniform including the Sam Brown belt rig and holster, tall leather boots with a special scabbard afixed inside to fit a British commando knife, a brace of medals, field glasses with leather case, and his sidearm (interestingly, a .45 revolver). Though obviously used, all of it was in mint condition.

He showed me all this stuff, and it was truly fascinating for me, whose father was a Defense Department Engineer working on advanced weaponry, mother employed by AFES, uncle in the first landing party on Iwo Jima, and grandfather a retired US NAVY Captain. And I knew I was going to Nam and was already getting ready.

I wanted that hat worse than ever, and I actually had some hope of getting it when the owner said he had no sons, it was far too small for him, and he'd really like to see it in hands that would take care of it--along with the rest of the get-up. I really don't think it was about money. He was no spring chicken himself, and I truly believe he wanted someone like me, if not actually me, to have the whole kit and kaboodle someday.

I tried on the campaign hat every time I went it there and would wear it around the store for a while. He was such a great guy!

Then one day, I went in, but he wasn't there. I asked if he was out to lunch and coming back, and the guy behind the counter, who turned out to be the co-owner I'd never had a word with, got a long face and said that his partner had suddenly croaked.

t was then that I noticed that the display cabinet on the wall was empty!. The co-owner said someone came in and bought the hat and the whole get-up for some amount of money, which I don't exactly remember, only that it was not so much, especially considering that the wheel gun was part of the deal.

I just hope it's not rotting in someone's basement but rather in safe-keeping, maybe in a museum. Think they'd let me come in a wear the campaign hat around inside for a while?

 

[Widebrim]

^^Man, I feel for you!

 

[Worf]

Bought a used Campaign Hat Cord off the Bay, found it's too short for my noggin'. Anyone know who might sell large compaign cords? Thanks in advance...

Worf

 

[gtdean48]

Bought a used Campaign Hat Cord off the Bay, found it's too short for my noggin'. Anyone know who might sell large compaign cords? Thanks in advance...

Worf

I'm a 7 5/8 & had to shorten some of these style hat cords to not hang over my brim...
http://www.riverjunction.com/Mens-Hat--Post-Indian-War-Military-Hat-Cords-_p_2431.html