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Public Enemies

texasgirl

One Too Many
Messages
1,423
Location
Dallas, TX
Well, we went and saw it again, and I thought it was even better the second time. ;) Haven't seen a movie twice in the theater in years, well worth the $ :)
 

Atticus Finch

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,718
Location
Coastal North Carolina, USA
Interesting. Would a white customer address a black shoe shine man in that way either back then? Probably not. Would he really care frankly how the shoe shine man was doing? One would think given the racial stereotypes of blacks and whites of that era, it wouldn't be said by either party. Perhaps it was a bit of modern politic correctness by having that line in the film?

Agreed, especially a white Texan lawman in the mid 1930s. Chances are high that he would have said something like, "Gimme a shine, boy."

To me, in the first quote above, the writer poses (and answers) a question as to whether the film's depiction of a white customer speaking politely to an African-American shoe shine man constitutes a historical inaccuracy in the film, given what the writer believes to be the likelihood of that actually happening in the 1930s and given the stereotypes of race relations in that era.

To me, in the second quote above, the writer agrees, adding that the likelihood of the customer being polite to the African-American shoe shine man is further reduced by the customer being a white, lawman from Texas.

What I'm about to write is not a condemnation, just an observation, but I believe that both of these quotes draw from negative regional and racial stereotypes. The author of the first quote almost states as much. I believe the quotes draw from stereotypes because factually, a white, Texas lawman could have said absolutely anything to a Chicago shoeshine in 1933. He could have said, "Gimme a shine, boy" or he could have said, "How 'bout them Sox!" I submit that both are very likely and I seriously doubt that anyone here can introduce definitive evidence to the contrary. Certainly, the film's depiction of a white, Texas lawman politely asking as to the well being of a shoeshine man is not so unlikely to have actually occurred as to constitute a historical flaw in the film.

Just my humble two cents.

AF
 
Messages
11,579
Location
Covina, Califonia 91722
While certain regions did have a higher likelyhood of prejudicial lifestyles, how one treated others would be influenced by:

how your parents raised you,
religeous upbringing,
family and friends,
peer pressure,
and personal character.

As an aside, my parents were traveling to Florida in 1950 and on a stop somewhers down south my mom exiting a store held open a door for the black woman coming in and a white woman spit on her!

In 2000 on a trip to Copiague, NY I saw racism by a pizza shop counter guy that was ugly.

It happens but whether it happens is a choice of the person doing it not by the state or locale.
 

kuwisdelu

Familiar Face
Messages
75
Location
Indiana
Considering we know the exact white, Texas lawman who said it.....the question can be reduced to what kind of thing would the historical Charles Winstead have said to a Chicago shoeshine man?
 

Marc Chevalier

Gone Home
Messages
18,192
Location
Los Feliz, Los Angeles, California
Okay, forget the likelihood of what the lawman would have said. I regret having introduced the idea.


What I really find incredible is that in the movie he says "How ya doin'?", which sounds like something out of Saturday Night Fever. It rings too modern, too 'Brooklynese' even, for the era and the character.

.
 

Tomasso

Incurably Addicted
Messages
13,719
Location
USA
Marc Chevalier said:
What I really find incredulous is that in the movie he says "How ya doin'?"...... It rings too modern, too 'Brooklynese' even, for the era and the character.

.
The Golden Era gents in my family (NY/Chicago) used "How ya doin'" extensively, as a casual informal greeting. [huh]


And I do recall some old time Texans use "How y'all doin'."
 

Atticus Finch

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,718
Location
Coastal North Carolina, USA
Marc Chevalier said:
Okay, forget the likelihood of what the lawman would have said. I regret having introduced the idea...
.


Because I am a white, Southern lawman, it is very likely that I am over sensitive to the way white, Southern lawmen are often depicted in Hollywood and elsewhere. And as an over-sensitive, white, Southern lawman, I have clearly nit-picked this non-issue much, much more than it deserved. Sorry.

AF
 

Marc Chevalier

Gone Home
Messages
18,192
Location
Los Feliz, Los Angeles, California
Tomasso said:
The Golden Era gents in my family (NY/Chicago) used "How ya doin'" extensively, as a casual informal greeting. [huh]


And I do recall some old time Texans use "How y'all doin'?"

Time to split hairs. NY/Chicago isn't Texas, and never has been. "How y'all doin'?" isn't "How ya doin'?" ... and furthermore, "y'all" is addressed to a pair or a group, not a single person.


Incidentally, I liked the movie's Texan characters very much. They had more 'gravitas' than just about anyone else in the film; I wish they had been featured even more.


.
 

Marc Chevalier

Gone Home
Messages
18,192
Location
Los Feliz, Los Angeles, California
DanielJones said:
Just as a bit of useless trivia, "y'all" is the singular ...


"There is ... a long-standing disagreement about whether y'all can have primarily singular reference. While y'all is generally held in the Southern United States to be usable only as the plural form of 'you,' a scant but vocal minority (for example, Eric Hyman[5]) argue that the term can be used in the singular as well. Adding confusion to this issue is that observers attempting to judge usage may witness a single person addressed as y'all if the speaker implies in the reference other persons not present: 'Have y'all [you and others] had dinner yet?' (to which the answer would be, 'Yes, we have', by a single person acting as spokesman for the group.)"


"Ninety-nine times out of a hundred, to be sure, you-all indicates a plural, implicit if not explicit, and thus means, when addressed to a single person, 'you and your folks' or the like, but the hundredth time it is impossible to discover any such extension of meaning."

– H.L. Mencken, The American Language: An Inquiry into the Development of English in the United States, 1948, p.337


.
 

Marc Chevalier

Gone Home
Messages
18,192
Location
Los Feliz, Los Angeles, California
Lenore said:
*giggles* I was waiting for someone to say it.

:eek:fftopic: As a matter of note: I'd like to point you to this blog. More than y'all wanted to know about y'all


Thanks, Lenore. From that blog:


"And through most of the South, [y'all] is plural. Unless someone is intentionally misusing it for effect, 'y'all' seldom refers to just one person.

Here's how Lewis Grizzard handled the situation: 'For some unknown reason, Northerners think Southerners use 'y'all' and 'you all' in the singular sense. Northerners will giggle and ask, 'So where are you all from?' I answer by saying, 'I all is from Atlanta.'" :)



.
 

Lenore

Practically Family
Messages
758
Location
Houston, Texas
Marc Chevalier said:
Thanks, Lenore. From that blog: "And through most of the South, [y'all] is plural. Unless someone is intentionally misusing it for effect, 'y'all' seldom refers to just one person." :)


.


No problem. Being from Texas, I hear it used incorrectly more often than not. In fact, it's one of my larger grammatical pet peeves.... right up there with "irregardless." :rage:
 

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