Procedure for Tying a Single End Bow Tie?

[Annixter]

I could really use some help from anyone versed in tying a single-end bow tie. The only source I've found shows this poor picture that doesn't describe the actual knotting:

http://www.gentlemansgazette.com/de...010/05/0023_10-single-end-bow-tie-300x221.jpg

I have a single-end bow tie that I'd like to wear to a wedding coming up, and a step-by-step breakdown of the tying procedure is greatly appreciated. I've been fooling around with different ways of tying the knot, but I cannot seem to find the right one that allows me to get a nice tight knot and a tight fit around the collar without the knot coming loose. Thanks!

 

[billyspew]

I could really use some help from anyone versed in tying a single-end bow tie. The only source I've found shows this poor picture that doesn't describe the actual knotting:

http://www.gentlemansgazette.com/de...010/05/0023_10-single-end-bow-tie-300x221.jpg

I have a single-end bow tie that I'd like to wear to a wedding coming up, and a step-by-step breakdown of the tying procedure is greatly appreciated. I've been fooling around with different ways of tying the knot, but I cannot seem to find the right one that allows me to get a nice tight knot and a tight fit around the collar without the knot coming loose. Thanks!

Should be exactly the same as a normal one, just make sure that the "small" end is the one that comes back and over.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

.
Billyspew is right.

 

[Auld Edwardian]

I could really use some help from anyone versed in tying a single-end bow tie. The only source I've found shows this poor picture that doesn't describe the actual knotting:

http://www.gentlemansgazette.com/de...010/05/0023_10-single-end-bow-tie-300x221.jpg

I have a single-end bow tie that I'd like to wear to a wedding coming up, and a step-by-step breakdown of the tying procedure is greatly appreciated. I've been fooling around with different ways of tying the knot, but I cannot seem to find the right one that allows me to get a nice tight knot and a tight fit around the collar without the knot coming loose. Thanks!

I agree with the guys above, it is the same as a traditional one. That being said, have you considered just getting a traditional bow tie? I cannot believe that it would look as full, or stay situated as well as a full tie. It might prove more of a challenge at first to master (But not an overwhelming one.), but people are impressed when you are out somewhere when the evening starts to wane and become more relaxed, and you reach up and casually undo your tie. Ben Silver has an excellent page on their site that gives very clear instructions on how to tie a bow tie, as well as knots for other ties. The link is http://www.bensilver.com/tknot-bowtie.dlp Consider getting a real full bow tie now, practice a little, and enjoy joining the ranks of those that have mastered this gentlemanly art. Let us know how you make out.

 

[Anthony Jordan]

I realise the picture (which I supplied) doesn't carry with it a verbal description of the knotting, but I think it is worth persevering with; it does illustrate it accurately and indeed is the source from which I learned to knot my single-ended ties. The gentleman who hosts the Black Tie guide has actually found a version with a description and posted it on the last page of the linked discussion below - it might be worth referring to also. Good luck!

As to fullness, etc., this argument has been canvassed before, and I maintain that there is no noticeable difference in appearance between the "single-ended" and "double-ended" types, a topic which was thrashed to death on another clothing forum some time ago: http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/...-ended-bow-tie&highlight=single-ended+bow+tie

(The original pictures I posted on that thread are also available on my sig. site below.)

 

[Nick D]

I agree with the guys above, it is the same as a traditional one. That being said, have you considered just getting a traditional bow tie? I cannot believe that it would look as full, or stay situated as well as a full tie. It might prove more of a challenge at first to master (But not an overwhelming one.), but people are impressed when you are out somewhere when the evening starts to wane and become more relaxed, and you reach up and casually undo your tie.

Single-ended ties are for white and black tie. The white-tie ones in particular are starched and are sharp as a knife, see for example Anton Walbrook in 'The Red Shoes' where he is clearly wearing a single-ended tie. There are other film examples but that's the one that springs to mind. And being formalwear, the expectation is that they won't be untied.

 

[Annixter]

Thanks for the responses. I'm no bow tie expert, obviously, so I don't intend to disagree with those experienced members, but from the pictures in Anthony Jordan's signature, the single-end knotting procedure appears to be different from a double-ended bow tie like in Auld Edwardian's linked instructions. Note that the loose end (end "B" in A. Jordan's diagram) doesn't appear to tuck back into the back of the knot loop and rest in it sticking out to the left shoulder behind the left "wing"; instead, it appears to come out of the bottom, go through the loop off-shooting to the right, and tucks behind the strap on the collar at the right shoulder. Double-end instructions appear very different in that regard.

I realise the picture (which I supplied) doesn't carry with it a verbal description of the knotting, but I think it is worth persevering with. . . .

I did not realize you drew and posted the detail, and I certainly mean no offense using the word "poor." I had not seen your signature link page and only had that very blurry copy of your original to go off, which was what I meant by poor. The clear diagram in your link is much better and appreciated.

Would you please walk me through the knotting steps as best you can? Your additional photos are excellent, but the right-hand closeup of the knot behind the bow confuses me. According to your sketch, I should bring end "B" down over the folded bow and up the back of the bow pointing it to the right shoulder. Here's where I lose you. What comes next? From the closeup photo, it looks like after bringing B down over the bow it goes back behind the strap at the collar (so between the strap and the collar fabric) and then somehow comes out of the bottom of the strap and continues to the right to be tucked in behind the strap. That's where I'm confused because I cannot imagine how I can go into and come out of the bottom of the strap behind the bow in the same move. Maybe my brain is on the fritz at the moment, but I'd appreciate your assistance in this antique enigma!

Single-ended ties are for white and black tie. . . . And being formalwear, the expectation is that they won't be untied.

Thanks for the additional information. That supports what I have read from older formalwear publications and Lounge threads that claim the single-end bow tie was a popular tie in the early 1900s just as "traditional" or proper, if not more so, than a double-ended for formalwear. My dinner jacket is c.1920, and I think the single-end tie makes a tighter knot (noticeable in A. Jordan's photo) which looks better on me.

 

[Anthony Jordan]

I did not realize you drew and posted the detail, and I certainly mean no offense using the word "poor." I had not seen your signature link page and only had that very blurry copy of your original to go off, which was what I meant by poor. The clear diagram in your link is much better and appreciated.

Would you please walk me through the knotting steps as best you can? Your additional photos are excellent, but the right-hand closeup of the knot behind the bow confuses me. According to your sketch, I should bring end "B" down over the folded bow and up the back of the bow pointing it to the right shoulder. Here's where I lose you. What comes next? From the closeup photo, it looks like after bringing B down over the bow it goes back behind the strap at the collar (so between the strap and the collar fabric) and then somehow comes out of the bottom of the strap and continues to the right to be tucked in behind the strap. That's where I'm confused because I cannot imagine how I can go into and come out of the bottom of the strap behind the bow in the same move. Maybe my brain is on the fritz at the moment, but I'd appreciate your assistance in this antique enigma!

Dear Annixter, no offense taken, I assure you! I'm afraid I can't take credit for drawing the diagram, it just so happens that I had a copy which I photographed and posted online, at which point blacktieguide picked it up. As to tying, I am now sitting at my computer with the original tying illustration in front of me and a black tie around my neck! If I follow your progress correctly, you now have a fully-formed bow, secured in place by end B, and with end B sticking out from behind the knot waiting to be tidied away, is that right? Whilst I am now having an embarrassing amount of difficulty in construing my own photographs, I suspect what I did in the picture is what I have also done just now, which is to take end B and fold/tuck it behind the strap from below (one could also take it above the strap and fold it behind, but I suspect that each knot has its own logic, and here the first configuration seemed the best). Does that make sense? I will have another go at explaining if not! In essence, though, it seems to me that you have mastered the knot, and the final phase, being about how you tidy away end B, is very much a matter of personal preference. I've tried to describe what I do, but no doubt there are other ways!

 

[Auld Edwardian]

Single-ended ties are for white and black tie. The white-tie ones in particular are starched and are sharp as a knife, see for example Anton Walbrook in 'The Red Shoes' where he is clearly wearing a single-ended tie. There are other film examples but that's the one that springs to mind. And being formalwear, the expectation is that they won't be untied.

As to fullness, etc., this argument has been canvassed before, and I maintain that there is no noticeable difference in appearance between the "single-ended" and "double-ended" types, a topic which was thrashed to death on another clothing forum some time ago: http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/f...-ended+bow+tie

Dear Mr. Anthony Jordan & Nick D.

Gentlemen, I wish willing concede that I was very much in error as to the appropriateness of this style tie for formal occasions. Whilst I was aware of such a tie, I have not come across one in my more than twenty years of wearing bowties. I am grateful for you informing me when such a tie should be worn. While I presently own several bowties that are appropriate formal occasions, I will have to seek out several of these so as to “raise the bar” of my own personal sartorial standards. Also I was not aware that there had been previously heated discussion about the fullness of such a tie. I do not wish to cause the reengagement of a previous unpleasantness. Please accept my apologies for making uniformed comments, or suggestions, it was not intentional. I extend my best wishes to you both.

 

[Annixter]

Finally GOT IT! Anthony, thanks for the input. I was actually having trouble with the knot itself, unsure what loop (behind or in front of the strap) to slip the loose end through. This morning I sat down with a cardboard cylinder and tied the bow tie around it so that I could see all of the back of the bow and really get a good look at the knotting process. Billspew, Marc C., and Auld E., you were totally correct on the tying process being practically the same as a double-ended tie. The only difference is that instead of pulling the loose end back through the knot and aligning the back and front wing (double-ended) you just flip over the loose end behind the strap at the collar and run it off toward the shoulder. I stand utterly corrected, and glad of it.:eusa_doh: I appreciate all the feedback that helped me figure things out.

 

[Anthony Jordan]

Dear Mr. Anthony Jordan & Nick D.

Gentlemen, I wish willing concede that I was very much in error as to the appropriateness of this style tie for formal occasions. Whilst I was aware of such a tie, I have not come across one in my more than twenty years of wearing bowties. I am grateful for you informing me when such a tie should be worn. While I presently own several bowties that are appropriate formal occasions, I will have to seek out several of these so as to “raise the bar” of my own personal sartorial standards. Also I was not aware that there had been previously heated discussion about the fullness of such a tie. I do not wish to cause the reengagement of a previous unpleasantness. Please accept my apologies for making uniformed comments, or suggestions, it was not intentional. I extend my best wishes to you both.

Dear Auld Edwardian, please don't apologise, the open sharing of views and opinions makes this forum the interesting place that it is, and you certainly shouldn't reproach yourself for not being aware of a rather tedious disagreement in Another Place!

Finally GOT IT! Anthony, thanks for the input. I was actually having trouble with the knot itself, unsure what loop (behind or in front of the strap) to slip the loose end through. This morning I sat down with a cardboard cylinder and tied the bow tie around it so that I could see all of the back of the bow and really get a good look at the knotting process. Billspew, Marc C., and Auld E., you were totally correct on the tying process being practically the same as a double-ended tie. The only difference is that instead of pulling the loose end back through the knot and aligning the back and front wing (double-ended) you just flip over the loose end behind the strap at the collar and run it off toward the shoulder. I stand utterly corrected, and glad of it.:eusa_doh: I appreciate all the feedback that helped me figure things out.

Delighted to be of assistance!

 

[Auld Edwardian]

Dear Auld Edwardian, please don't apologise, the open sharing of views and opinions makes this forum the interesting place that it is, and you certainly shouldn't reproach yourself for not being aware of a rather tedious disagreement in Another Place!



Delighted to be of assistance!

Dear Mr. Jordan,

You are a true gentleman, and thank you for your kind remarks. I also believe in the respectful and honest sharing of ideas. I also it is a matter of gentlemanly noblesse oblige to admit when one wrong, albeit unwittingly, so as not to appear smug and haughty. Also I wanted to let you know I was truly interested in knowing when one wears a single ended bow tie. I think one would go rather well with my starched Windsor collar. I will now wish you a good day with a doff of my Lock & Co. Coke hat.