Pre '50 Non American Jazz Recommendations?

[Sweet Polly Purebred]

Jazz, as we all know has universal appeal. Every country in the world has contributed to the Jazz scene. When I was growing up my dad started a small Jazz "meeting" in our little town. Musicians and bands from all over the world came to play at this monthly gig. As a child I grew up with crazy musicians in our house, camped out in our pasture, parked in the drive in a VW Bus or a van. A Japanese banjo player, a Belgian Tuba player, crazy Brits (Max Collie) and so on.

As I've gotten older I've really become interested in the early Jazz of the world outside of the States, or ethnic Jazz from the States (LA's Pachuco Jazz, for example). The Alan Lomax collections contain bits and pieces of "immigrant" Jazz and I love those comps, additionally I have tons of French, Latin, and Gypsy, but what about the rest of the world? Where can I find it? What do you like?

I'd like to learn more about Eastern European, Japanese, Chinese et al from the 20's up through WWII, por favor.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Like 1930s German jazz, i suspect early eastern European jazz recordings might be hard to come across. Suppression of individualism was quite draconian in that part of the world at that time, for one thing. Another is simply the logistics of the penetration of the music, though i know the American big bands (at least Ellington's best band with Webster) did some touring throughout Europe.

For the German stuff, except for recordings of German artists made in the USA, you're looking at getting hold of the Charlie and his Orchestra recordings, which was the Nazi propaganda band. If you can handle the severely anti-Jewish, anti-black, anti British, anti-homosexual and quite profoundly campy lyrics, the musicians are actually pretty good. If i remember correctly, he had a particularly brilliant alto sax player. The BBC just did a short radio series (maybe two or three episodes) called Rhythm of the Reich about these guys.

That reminds me, i'm off to listen to Charlie.

bk

 

[Baron Kurtz]

well you piqued my interest and i found this:

http://nfo.net/euro/alphandxn.html

bk

 

[Sweet Polly Purebred]

Ok, first of all, that database is ACE! Thanks for finding that! Now all we gotta' do is find some of those records ..

Charlie and His Orchestra .. I found an online mp3 list with 2 volumes of their music .. I'm having a hard time describing how hearing those made me feel. I was completely taken by the sheer camp, his voice contained that happy smiling swing tone .. which at first made me smile then as the lyrics started to change from the original to the "modified" I felt a little bit uncomfortable. I was utterly stunned! Here's a quote from WFMU "The idea was to lure the masses in with the irrestible tonic of swing music and then slyly work in the anti-Jewish, American and British lyrics after the second or third verse."

Slyly?!?

I was so fixated with the words I didn't even hear the band, but I'm downloading those now, so I may have more to say on that.

I found some information about pre war Japanese Jazz: "From the 20s, Jimmy Harada (Dr.), Dick Mine (Vo.), Noriko Awaya ("Queen of Blues") were among the popular cats that lived long to tell the tale. The fiction movie "Shanhai bansukingu" discribes the Japanese jazz scene of the 20s, but I'm not sure if the movie is available in English.

During the late 30s to the end of WW2, jazz was banned due to war circumstances. On the other hand, western music flourished right after WW2 starting from jazz. Many Japanese people who survived the war claim that they were fascinated by American culture in particular jazz, and that it encouraged them to struggle there way up the ladder from the war ruins to achieve a new life. Female singers like Izumi Yukimura, Chiemi Eri, Peggy Hayama, male bandmen like George Kawaguchi, Franky Sakai, Sadao Watanabe are well-known to this day.

The following site thoroughly explains the most early Japanese jazz scene, but it's written in Japanese.
http://www.ismusic.ne.jp/hmika/JAPAN-JAZZ.htm" *edit - That's a dud link, boo.

Enough to keep me busy this evening :eusa_clap

More More More!

 

[thebadmamajama]

DJANGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Baron Kurtz]

aye, i avoided the western euros since Thora_Zine said she was well versed in the French stuff. But certainly the importance of the Hot Club cannot be glossed over. And Django especially since he returned to Paris - as a jazz musician and a Gypsy - after the outbreak of WWII and through the war, while Grapelli hid out in England (no judgement here, that's what i would have done). Apparently he was protected by the German top officers in charge of Paris.

bk

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Charlie and His Orchestra .. I found an online mp3 list with 2 volumes of their music .. I'm having a hard time describing how hearing those made me feel. I was completely taken by the sheer camp, his voice contained that happy smiling swing tone .. which at first made me smile then as the lyrics started to change from the original to the "modified" I felt a little bit uncomfortable.

It always reminded me of The Singing Detective, for some reason. I can just see him in a stripey blazer with an umbrella on stage.

incidentally, for those interested in Brit jazz look for Tito Burns (of Bob Dylan's Don't Look Back fame - he's the British promoter trying to negotiate fees with Granada and the BBC), Johnny Dankworth and Kenny Graham. Maybe John Burns and Alan Dean too. Interestingly a record of Johnny Dankworth from the early 50s was recently released by the Ontario based International Association of Jazz Record Collectors. Johnny's still touring. Might go see him next time he's in Londinium.

(where's NightandTheCity when you need 'im?)

bk

 

[Sweet Polly Purebred]

My dad was Estonian Gypsy and played Banjo, his major influences were Hot Club & The Ferre Brothers. He was forbidden to listen to Jazz when he was younger, so he took his banjo and fled to Ireland with his Polish tuba playing friend, Nicolas.

It always reminded me of The Singing Detective, for some reason. I can just see him in a stripey blazer with an umbrella on stage.

Ahaha!

I was reminded of Mel Brooks' "To Be Or Not To Be" ..

 

[Sweet Polly Purebred]

Pinoy Jazz

http://www.okara.com/html/philjazztraditions.html

Interesting, "Filipino jazz musicians actually started to forge an early Philippine identity in composition and arranging by drawing on Filipino traditional songs and folk sources during the late 1930s and early 1940s by the likes of Angel M. Pe?±a, a tradition continued until the present day by artists such as Bob Aves."

 

[Salv]

http://www.okara.com/html/philjazztraditions.html

Interesting, "Filipino jazz musicians actually started to forge an early Philippine identity in composition and arranging by drawing on Filipino traditional songs and folk sources during the late 1930s and early 1940s by the likes of Angel M. Pe?±a, a tradition continued until the present day by artists such as Bob Aves."

That sounds very strange. My dad was Filipino and he had several LPs of traditional Filipino music which me and my sisters used to snigger at in that typical "what-are-our-parents-like?" adolescent way. I'll have to take a listen to that link when I get home from work - I really can't imagine how a fusion of Filipino folk music and jazz would sound.

 

[Sweet Polly Purebred]

That sounds very strange. My dad was Filipino and he had several LPs of traditional Filipino music which me and my sisters used to snigger at in that typical "what-are-our-parents-like?" adolescent way. I'll have to take a listen to that link when I get home from work - I really can't imagine how a fusion of Filipino folk music and jazz would sound.

Oh, Salv, I'd be interested in anything you find!

---

"An Exodus of Filipino Musicians
by Angel Pena

The following article was written in Tokyo. This was published in a major daily on May 1, 1955

Here in Tokyo, the "New York of the Far east," the Filipino musician has managed to make a comfortable living in spite of stiff competition from Japanese musicians who have improved surprisingly from the time the first Americans came here in 1945. the American on Japanese music, particularly in the field of Jazz, remains manifested whenever a Japanese musician picks up his instrument to play. I find, however, that our countrymen here are more than able to meet the standard of living which is quite expensive. It would of course be difficult to generalize their reasons for coming over but certainly they find life better in all respects than they did in Manila in as far as music and working opportunities are concerned.

Japanese progressive jazz playing, and the attitude of their ear-trained public to the latest trends of contemporary jazz, made a deep impression upon us here. Not only are they sharp on popular music; they are as well versed in classical music. Last year in my quarters, I was studying the score of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony when the sixteen year old daughter of our landlady sitting beside me started humming the theme of the first movement. I was surprised at such musical knowledge, until she told me that music appreciation is taught in Japanese high schools.

On the other hand, the good Filipino musician has within him the brilliant qualities of the artist-in all aspects of music, serious or popular. But as fate would have it, this good musician never won the chance to prove how good he was because of the limited places of musical employment in our country and the inclination of the Filipino audience toward music that is for the feet rather than for the ear.

But there is one thing that strikes me. The Japanese musicians have not as keen a sense of harmony as do Filipino musicians. I have found out that bass players and pianists use different notes to adapt to a certain melody. In this aspect, I believe that we are superior. This does not mean, however, that Japanese musician are not good. It is simply that they are still young and in the process of development while we have matured enough along this line.

The situation, however is not hopeless foe the young, progressive Filipino musician. His progress is hampered only by the lack of adequate music material and the places to use them. I have high praises for their attempts to improve their style. They are good musicians, academically equipped and yet full of expression and feeling in their playing and writing. It is not, I think, too much to hope that our musical field will expand very soon, something that would be identical with Tokyo's."

 

[Sweet Polly Purebred]

Eua Sunthornsanan

Was just reading about Thai band leader, Eua Sunthornsanan who created Thailand's first swing band in the mid 40's.

" .. he continued to play classical music as well, but noticed that the jazz bands were attracting larger crowds, which made him realize that classical music was no longer in demand.

In 1936 he started composing scores for Thai films, and combined jazz and Western classical music with traditional Thai classical music. It was an already established genre, called phleng Thai sakol, but with his compositions, he greatly expanded the repertoire. With his own popular big band, Suntaraporn, phleng Thai sakol found a wider audience.

Initially, he faced criticism for introducing Western sounds into Thai traditional culture, however his music was embraced by Field Marshal Plaek Pibulsonggram, whose government had a program of modernization and Westernization.

Under the government's Public Relations Department, Eua headed an orchestra, which performed on national radio broadcasts, at government functions and dance parties. It served as the main orchestra in Thailand during the Second World War. He served as the orchestra chief and the chief of the music section for the department until his retirement in 1971.

He died of cancer in 1981."

---

" ..by the 1930s, however, Western classical music, showtunes, jazz and tango were popular. Soon, jazz grew to dominate Thai popular music, and Khru Eua Sunthornsanan soon set up the first Thai jazz band. The music he soon helped to invent along with influential band Suntharaporn was called pleng Thai sakorn, which incorporated Thai melodies with Western classical music. This music continued to evolve into luk grung, a romantic music that was popular with the upper-class."

 

[Salv]

There are lots of references on the net to the book in your link, but I can't find any sound samples of old Pinoy Jazz, just a site selling contemporary Filipino jazz. The best known jazz musician with a Filipino heritage must be Joe Bataan - an Afro-Filipino American, born in New York in 1942, known as The King Of Latin R&B and co-founder of the Salsoul label. I only have a few tracks by him, including a stomping version of Gil Scott-Heron's The Bottle, and there are no noticeable Filipino influences.

I'll keep looking.

 

[Sweet Polly Purebred]

Salv, I tracked down a couple of Salsoul compilations last night, they're queued up for my weekend tunes, thank you for the tip.

If you like that later (60's thru 70's) Afro influenced stuff, you might enjoy anything on the Fania label. I found a copy of the Fania All Stars box set (10 discs) at a flea market in Hollywood, Florida and it is one of my all time favorite compilations of Salsa/Jazz/Latin Disco. Comparable to the UK's Northern Soul in it's urban roots.

---

Last night I found some really great stuff by a Lithuanian singer/bandleader, Danielius Dolskis. Unfortunately I can't find any information on him in English. The recordings I found are dated 1929-1931 and have a hint of caberet fused with what is clearly American influenced roaring 20's Jazz. I'm setting up a page with samples for any of you who might be interested to hear some of it. Will post that later.

 

[vonwotan]

Thoughts from an avid amateur or dilettante

It seems to me that all over Europe, after WWI, Dixieland and Jazz were quickly introduced and really took off as new and upbeat, in keeping with the celebratory mood of the times. I believe it was around the same time that Jazz was introduced in Brazil.

Montmartre seems to have been a particularly important local for jazz in France, and saw performances by many American, French and other musicians. Others have already mentioned Django Reinhardt and the Quintette du Hot Club de France – but included in there should be Stephane Grapelli the violinist who played with the quintette.

Somewhat later, having started his public performances in the 1940s as a teenager, but definitely “French”, was Claude Bolling.

 

[Salv]

Salv, I tracked down a couple of Salsoul compilations last night, they're queued up for my weekend tunes, thank you for the tip.

If you like that later (60's thru 70's) Afro influenced stuff, you might enjoy anything on the Fania label. I found a copy of the Fania All Stars box set (10 discs) at a flea market in Hollywood, Florida and it is one of my all time favorite compilations of Salsa/Jazz/Latin Disco. Comparable to the UK's Northern Soul in it's urban roots.

---

Salsoul evolved away from its Latin roots to become probably the premier disco label, with little in the way of Latin rhythms, but since you mention Latin Disco you'll probably enjoy the Salsoul comps. Personally I love a lot of the Salsoul disco stuff: Loleatta Holloway's first Salsoul album still sounds great.

Well done with the Fania box set! I keep meaning to investigate Fania properly - Joe Bataan had his first hits on the label - because I do like that Latino R&B sound. I've got some stuff: the first first volume of the Nu Yorica series on Soul Jazz, which features some fantastically tough Latin funk, and this briliant photo of Joe Bataan and his homies in the liner notes

I've also got a CD reissue of Pete Rodriguez' El Rey del Boogaloo ! album on the Spanish Vampi Soul label - they've released some very interesting looking stuff by Willie Bobo, Eddie Palmieri and Cal Tjader, Joe Cuba, and Ray Barretto. And I've got some Mongo Santamaria reissues. Actually I'll be in New York at the end of the month, so I might have to call in on Ritmo Latino in Delancey Street...

I've had no luck finding any old Pinoy Jazz though.

 

[Sweet Polly Purebred]

Vonwotan, you're absolutely right about the post war Dixieland! I'm somewhat familiar with European Dixieland, the majority of my dad's collection was post war Euro. There was a time that my dad was a major part of that scene. I'd say I'm better versed in that Genre of Jazz than any other, not so much because I actively took an interest, but because it was such a fundamental element of my childhood environment. Until I went to school for the first time I thought that everybody had jam sessions in their living room! I knew what a gut bucket was when I was 3 lol and it wasn't until a Home Ec class in High School that I discovered what finger thimbles were really used for, I just knew that you used them to play the washboard! .. I'd like to know more about Brazilian Jazz. I really love Jobim but it seems everything I've found of his is Bossa Nova or Samba based, even the Sinatra sessions and I think Sammy Davis Jr. worked with him a bit as well. On my quest for world Jazz I did find some really nice Portuguese folk infused Jazz from around 1955. So I'm open to suggestions there!

---

Salv, that picture from the liners is great! I'm not sure which I like more, the chilled expression or that huge medallion! I've never heard of Vampi Soul (at least not that I was conscious of), but all of the artists you listed I know quite well!

If you're picking up CDs at that shop (I'm SO jealous!), I would suggest that you get yourself some Willie Colon, Hector Lavoe, Johnny Pacheco, Ismael Rivera. Staples in any proper Salsa collection! I think you might also like Boriqueno, Tito Rodriquez & His Orchestra. I'm sure you have Celia Cruz, but if you don't, get some quick! All of her work is fabulous but I really love her earliest stuff, she's part of the Fania family as well.

I can't find any Pinoy samples at all. I think it's a Myth. lol

There are Loungers here from all over the world, I know some of you must have records from your parents and grandparents .. don't be shy ..

 

[Salv]

.. I'd like to know more about Brazilian Jazz. I really love Jobim but it seems everything I've found of his is Bossa Nova or Samba based, even the Sinatra sessions and I think Sammy Davis Jr. worked with him a bit as well. On my quest for world Jazz I did find some really nice Portuguese folk infused Jazz from around 1955. So I'm open to suggestions there!

I can heartily recommend the Blue Brazil series (or at least Volumes 1 and 2) on Blue Note. The CDs feature tracks from EMI Brazil's 1960s and 70s jazz catalogue, with a nice range of music - great tracks by The Milton Banana Trio, Joyce, Elza Soares, Bossa 3, Quarteto Novo among others. Also very nice is Beat Of Brazil volume 2 (I keep meaning to pick up volume 1...) which is mainly 70s stuff from the Warner Bros catalogue, including Gilberto Gil's gorgeous Toda Menina Baiana. Also worth looking for is The Beginners Guide To Brazil if only for the first track, Sergio Mendes' Zanzibar, which would later be covered by Earth, Wind & Fire. It's a 2-CD set, the first CD being 70s stuff, and the second being contemporary Brazilian beats. The newer stuff isn't as good - think Brazilian chill-out - but Luisas by Cibelle is lovely.

Salv, that picture from the liners is great! I'm not sure which I like more, the chilled expression or that huge medallion! I've never heard of Vampi Soul (at least not that I was conscious of), but all of the artists you listed I know quite well!

If you're picking up CDs at that shop (I'm SO jealous!), I would suggest that you get yourself some Willie Colon, Hector Lavoe, Johnny Pacheco, Ismael Rivera. Staples in any proper Salsa collection! I think you might also like Boriqueno, Tito Rodriquez & His Orchestra. I'm sure you have Celia Cruz, but if you don't, get some quick! All of her work is fabulous but I really love her earliest stuff, she's part of the Fania family as well.

I can't find any Pinoy samples at all. I think it's a Myth. lol

There are Loungers here from all over the world, I know some of you must have records from your parents and grandparents .. don't be shy ..

I knew Vampi Soul from their excellent soul reissues (my first musical love) so I assumed I couldn't go too far wrong with some of their boogaloo stuff. I need to get more Latino music and I've made a note of your recommended names, so thanks for those.

As for Pinoy jazz ... the best I can do is digitise my dad's old traditional Filipino LPs for you, and leave it to you to imagine how they'd sound mixed with jazz...

 

[vonwotan]

Unfortunately, tracking down information on early Brazilian jazz is not easy. Samba is the earliest reference for some as it was tremendously popular along with the Charleston... However, there was Choro before Samba which is quite a bit like Ragtime. There has been a revival recently so perhaps we will see some more research on the subject.

 

[vonwotan]

By the way - have you seen the recordings available on Worlds Records? They have quite a few historical recordings that might interest you.

http://www.worldsrecords.com/