POTUS shoe

[GHT]

In the real world, most people don't spend more on shoes, than what groceries cost. Look around you.

Perhaps I just haven't read that script. Not wishing to detract from the various manufacturers of the boots that have been posted, my shoes are hand made by a professional Cordwainer. A Cordwainer makes shoes, a cobbler repairs them. Here's my latest pair and in the bottom of my wardrobe are racks of shoe skeletals, designed to keep the shoes in shape.

Such is the power of addiction that when former Lounger Simon Cathcart (SimonC) put this photo of 1920's Hollywood royalty on his website https://www.cathcartlondon.com/

That of Mary Pickford & Douglas Fairbanks, the addiction just kicked in. I had to have those shoes.

 

[TLW '90]

Apologies. My memory is faulty. The bad review was for Wesco.






16:39
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The Truth: Wesco is not what you think​

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Rose Anvil


TIMESTAMPS: 0:00 Intro 2:06 History 5:08 Leather 7:15 Construction 8:35 Build Process 9:16 Heel Stack 11:09 Cut in Half 11:47 ...

10 chapters
Intro | History | Leather | Construction | Build Process | Heel Stack | Cut in Half | Reveal | Components | Worth It?

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Chris Warren from Wesco addressing the Rose Anvil review​

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The Black Peacoat
Chris Warren from Wesco addressing the Rose Anvil review. This video was taken from the Wesco Facebook group which was ...




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That's because their prices jumped way up and he got this kind of quality, but while this kind of quality shouldn't have left the door it happens and I think one should give a company a chance to make things right and to determine how the defective product got shipped before just blasting them on the whole.

 

[TLW '90]

I have worn cowboy boots with black tie and white tie. To me, it's a polished black shoe. I have "formal shoes" or "evening shoes". I just don't like them. Why? Because they are shoes. I prefer boots.


Blame it all on my roots,
I showed up in boots,
And I ruined your black tie affair,

Such is the case with Dr. Martens. Suddenly, they are 5h!t shoes. Corrected grain leather with a painted on top coat. Bontex footbed insole. A plastic welt which is melted onto the sole instead of stitched on.

Dr. Martens boots were never made to be a heritage boot, meant to be resoled by a cobbler, for decades of wear. They were made for comfort. The original market was housewives over the age of 40. They became popular with factory workers, mail carriers, and police officers. People who were on their feet all day. And occasionally chased somebody, or ran from a dog. At this, Dr. Martens AirSole did a fantastic job.

I first started wearing Dr. Martens as a teenager. Walking around campus, taking public transportation, and the occasional fistfight. When riding a motorcycle, as the bike comes to a complete stop, the AirSoles were the best on pavement. This is still why I own a pair of Dr. Martens. And probably why I will always have a pair. The "cheap" leather is easier to clean off, and not something that I would cry over, after thousands of miles of road debris hitting them. A little soap and water will do the trick. The craftsmanship is good enough that the rows of stitching have never burst open. The heat fused welt to sole is genius. I've never had a leak in the rain. Each pair I've owned has lasted over a decade.

Do I compare Dr. Martens to Viberg, Trickers, Alden or some other shoe costing 3 to 5 times as much? No. I know that they are "cheap" shoes. But they are functional shoes.

What shoes compare to Dr. Martens? Sold in the same price range, and offering similar function?

When you make a fair comparison, to mall shoes, Dr. Martens are at the top of that heap. Skechers? Timberland?














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It's not about their original intention to be utilitarian, but the fact that they've become fashion footwear, priced higher than they should be, and are often bought by people assuming certain things about the quality based on the price and argue about the quality based on said pricetag and the reputation of the name.
Even though the price for them isn't exactly astronomical, you're still not getting what you pay for.
They're often marketed as being a more premium quality product than they are.

 

[Fifty150]

1920's Hollywood royalty

Modern Royalty

 

[Fifty150]

In the real world, most people don't spend more on shoes, than what groceries cost. Look around you.

According to Pew Research, 21.5% of the global population enjoys a living standard of upper-middle and high income. Opinions vary. We all live different lifestyles. Maybe there are people who spend $600 on shoes for themselves, and only $100 to feed their children. If 3 out of 4 people are middle income and below........... with most of those people being low income and poor....... Looking around you means nothing if you are at a boot collectors convention. Some people really believe that we should all be driving Tesla cars, without a second thought as to what those cars cost, and not having the ability to charge them.

 

[Bamaboots]

Not like a thread around here to ever veer off track but maybe this will head it back, somewhat.

A lot of Presidents wore cowboy boots and many more were gifted them while in office. And why wouldn't they? It's a truly American form of footwear.

Presidential Boots | Tony Lama Boots

Made by TL for Reagan who was known to wear boots.

LBJ wore cowboy boots but never in the Oval Office, or so I've read.

Said to be LBJ's favorite pair. Lucchese of San Antonio

G. W. was known to wear his to formal events.

Rocky Carroll made boots for seven presidents and both Bush's wore boots made by him.
The Soul and Soles of a Texas Boot Maker - The New York Times

And just for grins: The Honourable Cordwainers' Company
Founded by cowboy boot and shoemaker D. W. Frommer who died last year. I have two pairs of his boots.

 

[Edward]

Such is the case with Dr. Martens. Suddenly, they are 5h!t shoes. Corrected grain leather with a painted on top coat. Bontex footbed insole. A plastic welt which is melted onto the sole instead of stitched on.

DMs are something of a victim of market placement politics. For many years, their basic bot - and hence the most iconic one - was the standard 8-hole boot. Originally made in England - then, because they market demanded the boot remain at a certain price, they outsourced production to where that could be done more cheaply. In truth, the Chinese made boot was no lesser than the English made boot until they needed to cut productions costs again to keep to a set retail price, and so they began to compromise on quality. All along, though, there has been plenty of other DM footwear that has been perfectly good - there still is. The boots that it became fashionable to dismiss weren't by any means representative of their full line, but it is what it is - those are the ones that got picked up on to be compared unfairly to boots in a much higher price band. As you note, they are what they are.

Modern Royalty






View attachment 635601

This is where of course the English class system comes into play. Aristocracy here don't have the sort of concerns about elements of their clothing that we in the lower orders do; they will often wear things to destruction, long past the point where you or I might have abandoned it. Of course, if you don't have to walk or jump on and off public transport in the rain, a bit of a hole in the sole is also less of a concern. It'd be interesting to know whether these shoes are off the rack or handmade (I don't know Henry Wales' preferences in that regard). The now King Charles III has his shoe handmade by John Lobb; several decades ago he had a pair repaired. There had been a press mention of the cost of his shoes that raised eyebrows (a pair of bespoke John Lobbs costs several thousand GBP) which had rather irked the royal, and he reputedly demanded that the repairs to his shoes be visible as a shot back at his critics. Of course, some in the money classes have long preferred to have a repair be neat but visible, as a social signifier that the individual can afford the sort of products that are worth repairing. It's a very U / non-U thing.

It's also interesting to note that Henry here is wearing a brogue rather than the 'correct' shoe with morning dress; again, once you reach a certain level in society, "rules" are to be broken. I rather like his morning dress here - he wears it as if it's his own (which undoubtedly it is), not some alien costume he has rented for the day. Trousers are rather on the skinny side for my preferences, but that's to personal taste and they are very much within the norms of what a man his age these days is more likely to prefer.

 

[Fifty150]

I thought that Royals had valets and butlers who took care of things like holes in shoes.




I believe that US Presidents wearing cowboy boots is a thing of the past. Clinton, Obama, Trump, and Biden didn't wear them.


I think that a lot of companies like to gift their products to the President. Good advertising when the President wears it. And even if the President doesn't wear it, they can still claim that they made it for the President. Did any President actually wear Johnston & Murphy or Allen Edmonds on a daily basis? Or did these companies routinely send free shoes to The White House just to say that made made shoes for POTUS?

 

[Fifty150]

I thought that Royals had valets and butlers who took care of things like holes in shoes.




I believe that US Presidents wearing cowboy boots is a thing of the past. Clinton, Obama, Trump, and Biden didn't wear them.


I think that a lot of companies like to gift their products to the President. Good advertising when the President wears it. And even if the President doesn't wear it, they can still claim that they made it for the President. Did any President actually wear Johnston & Murphy or Allen Edmonds on a daily basis? Or did these companies routinely send free shoes to The White House just to say that they made shoes for POTUS

 

[Fifty150]

DMs are something of a victim of market placement politics.

Dr. Martens are still being worn. From what I see. Mostly by teens and 20 somethings. The crowd that is influenced by marketing, social media, and product placement. The crowd that doesn't care about things like brands of tanneries, grade of leather hides, or traditional shoemaking techniques. The crowd that couldn't afford $1,000+ shoes, even if they knew how to appreciate them. For these kids, $100 to $250 is probably what they can afford, and they can get a pair on sale with Dr. Martens 20% off student discount.

Dr. Martens is not offering a discount to over 40 year old men, with a portfolio. Their target market is focused on people under 30. They are not competing for the business of someone who would wear Viberg. Dr. Martens is not in the luxury item business. They are selling a fashion shoe. Are they overpriced? All shoes are overpriced. Every premium shoe is overpriced. Every lesser quality shoe is overpriced. A $30 Wal*Mart shoe is overpriced. That's how they make a profit


The youth don't wear fashion that their grandparents wear. I am no longer young. My nephew would not want my Alden Indy Boot. I don't want any of his sneaker library. Same way we listen to different music. I get it when kids still wear Dr. Martens. I wore them at that age. My parents didn't wear them either.

 

[Fifty150]

From what I see. Mostly by teens and 20 somethings.

Dr. Martens 20% off student discount.

Their target market is focused on people under 30.

Apparently, I wasn't looking hard enough.


The Dalai Lama and The Pope wear Dr. Martens. Who knew? Maybe we'll see a US President wear them. Or even a Royal.

 

[Edward]

Dr. Martens are still being worn. From what I see. Mostly by teens and 20 somethings. The crowd that is influenced by marketing, social media, and product placement. The crowd that doesn't care about things like brands of tanneries, grade of leather hides, or traditional shoemaking techniques. The crowd that couldn't afford $1,000+ shoes, even if they knew how to appreciate them. For these kids, $100 to $250 is probably what they can afford, and they can get a pair on sale with Dr. Martens 20% off student discount.

Dr. Martens is not offering a discount to over 40 year old men, with a portfolio. Their target market is focused on people under 30. They are not competing for the business of someone who would wear Viberg. Dr. Martens is not in the luxury item business. They are selling a fashion shoe. Are they overpriced? All shoes are overpriced. Every premium shoe is overpriced. Every lesser quality shoe is overpriced. A $30 Wal*Mart shoe is overpriced. That's how they make a profit


The youth don't wear fashion that their grandparents wear. I am no longer young. My nephew would not want my Alden Indy Boot. I don't want any of his sneaker library. Same way we listen to different music. I get it when kids still wear Dr. Martens. I wore them at that age. My parents didn't wear them either.

I imagine too when you're a kid and still figuring out your thing, the idea of spending big money on shoes you might not fit or want to wear in a year or two doesn't appeal.... if they only last a year (my first pairs of DM boots actually lasted me about eighteen months of hard wear, wore practically nothing else at the time), then it's not such a big deal. and if it's a 'going out' shoe you only wear once or twice a fortnight, they likely last a lot longer even now.

Last pair of DM boots I had were a chunky hiking boot style, as I recall - bought in Autumn of 97, lasted til one of them split around the heel about four years later. I moved on to milspec footwear after that.

Apparently, I wasn't looking hard enough.


The Dalai Lama and The Pope wear Dr. Martens. Who knew? Maybe we'll see a US President wear them. Or even a Royal.

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I always enjoyed that Il Papa JPII wore DMs. I may have had several serious differences of theology with him, but somehow that humanised the man. That and the time he stole Bono's sunglasses.

I think they're still widely worn over here by older folks who grew up with them, though possibly they're the ones buying into the more expensive lines with the better components now. I did at one point have a pair of Royal Mail issued DM three-hole shoes that I wore instead of sneakers for some years, though I moved away from them when my aesthetic changed and I started to prefer an older style.

 

[Fifty150]

I imagine too when you're a kid and still figuring out your thing

For me, it was not so long ago. As a teen, we shop for fashion. Meaning that kids are influenced. Back then, it was what other kids wore, what you saw at the stores downtown, what you saw in magazine photos, and what you saw on MTV. Today's kids have internet access, and there are social media influencers.


Believe me when I tell you that no kid is looking at what an older person is wearing. Kids are not going to want "dress shoes", some overbuilt logging boot from The Pacific Northwest, the shoes that Indiana Jones wore, or time honored shoemakers from England and New England. A kid does not care about things like Goodyear welt, CF Stead suede, Horween Chromexcel, or Puritan stitches. A kid does not want to wear his dad's shoes, or his grandpa's shoes.


For some kids, they get their first "something better" when they get their first job with a "shoe requirement". If the kid gets a blue collar job which calls for safety shoes, he learns that his favorite pair of Timberland and Dr. Martens are garbage. If a kid gets a uniform job, he quickly understands that the uniform boots issued to him are amazing because he can run in them, and they go through sand, dirt, mud, snow, rain - and his feet don't hurt. When a kid gets a job in an office, or where they require a professional appearance, he learns that those Thom McAn and Kinney shoes just don't cut it.


For myself, I got better things in life as I needed them.

I drove used cars, and worked on them, until I figured that I was better off with a new car that had a warranty. I didn't save any money with someone else's 10 year old car, which was falling apart; because of all of the money I spent on the repairs. I spent $$$$XXXX to buy the car in cash, that could have been a down payment. All the repair costs could have been car payments. That took about 15 years to figure out. After spending XXXXXXdollars on used cars and repairs - I could have just bought a new car.


All through my teens and twenties, I did not know anything about shoes, nor could I care. Dress shoes were something that I just did not like. I didn't want to wear "old man shoes". I had a few poor quality pairs, which I threw away because they hurt my feet and/or fell apart. I learned to get by, by wearing highly polished boots. Cowboy boots.

I wasn't trying to "sell" a punk rock image. I wasn't "posing" as a skinhead. I did ride a motorcycle for transportation. So I wore Dr. Martens when I was riding. On my feet, the Airsoles felt best when I put my feet down. The "cheap" leather was good enough to protect my feet from rocks, gravel, and debris on the open road. The "cheap" leather never wore out from kicking the shifter peg.


Now that I'm of a certain age, I use leather dye, paint, shoe polish, or permanent markers to color over the yellow stitches. I don't need those bright yellow stitches to pop. I now own other footwear. But no other shoe "feels" like the AirSoles. And for me, that is the sell.


When Mr. Trump was shot, one of the photos showed the Dainite style studded soles on the bottom of an agent's shoe. I don't know if Secret Service issues those to protective service field agents. But those were a smart choice. I have shoes with that sole style. They are on their feet most of the time, standing around, and you never know when you may have to jump, run, climb a wall, or fight.

I moved on to milspec footwear

Modern military specifications are a little bit different. Today's uniform services - military, police, fire, postal - issues footwear annually. Some agencies give you 2 pairs a year. At least here in the US, the budgets allow for yearly shoes. Now, it's almost an expected perquisite. Even blue collar trade jobs, where you belong to a labor union. US workers expect the boss to buy their shoes.

Uniform shoes are no longer built with longevity in mind. They are now more concerned about comfort, and the ability to withstand harsh conditions. Boots now have to withstand whatever conditions and environments the soldiers have to brave. We're seeing different technologies and synthetics. Nobody cares about keeping the boots when you go home, having them last another decade, and then getting them resoled. I want waterproof, breathable, flexible, light weight, bouncy, ankle support, traction - and I don't care what it's made with or how it's made. They only have to last for a year until I get my next pair.

 

[Fifty150]

Johnston & Murphy has made shoes for several presidents. Maybe in the case of Lincoln, Lincoln actually wore the shoes. Roosevelt probably wore those shoes as well. I'm just looking at the timeline. 1860's & 1900's. There just weren't that many companies back then. Without a doubt, businesses were a long way away from marketing and product placement strategies.

Kennedy and Reagan got wingtips and cap toes. Very likely that they picked the shoes out and actually wore them. 1961 and 1981. Johnston & Murphy still had a pretty good product. The POTUS himself probably wanted a pair of shoes from them.

The timeline now advances to 2009. At this point in time, the shoes were mostly manufactured by contractors, and the shoes are now mass marketed. They are selling the name, on "comfort shoes", and products which are made at a lower cost to sell at a lower cost. I believe that this was when the marketing department came up with the idea to give shoes to The POTUS, and market the company as the shoe the presidents wear. This is where I'm starting to wonder if these presidents actually picked out and wore the shoes. Or if they simply accepted the shoes as a gift, and then donated them to charity or gave them away to family and friends. Maybe they are in some presidential archive, or library display.

What doesn't make sense is that while Johnston & Murphy still sells cap toes, wingtips, and boots - they don't offer a "presidential collection". Why not sell the exact same model that they made for the presidents? Or advertise the model being sold as the shoe worn by President Fill In The Blank? I would buy Lincoln boots, or Reagan shoes.