Post War Blues, Soul & Rock. 1945 - 1975

[majormajor]

More dirty sax breaks. Otis Rush, from 1962...

[video=youtube;BjapRXIpEBU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjapRXIpEBU[/video]

 

[Worf]

Hey Major Major... this one's for you!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GvfIx_-Xm4

Listen to him mumbling his solo's while he's playing! Mercy.... Lawd have Mercy!

Worf

 

[Peacoat]

More dirty sax breaks. Otis Rush, from 1962...

That one is so dirty I'm surprised the Label didn't censor it!

 

[majormajor]

Hey Major Major... this one's for you!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GvfIx_-Xm4

Listen to him mumbling his solo's while he's playing! Mercy.... Lawd have Mercy!

Worf

Good one Worf.

Here's Amos's original version from 1948. Even more laid back....

[video=youtube;83yRxBMiv3c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83yRxBMiv3c[/video]

 

[Worf]

Otis's tune is kinda dirty but nothing on the absolute classic... "The Ballad of Butcher Pete". My Aunt Marie in Brooklyn had what we called "Party Records" back in the day. Mostly these were comedy records by Redd Foxx and Mom's Mabely but this is one they wouldn't let us kids hear either and if we did we didn't understand half of what they were speaking about. Between this record and the stuff by "Bullmoose" Jackson my young brain was fried.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Fc1wr3dYxU

What a nasty, nasty record.....

Worf

 

[vitanola]

These party records have a long history.

Look up some of the stuff waxed by Georgia Tom and Tampa Red back in the 'Twenties.

[video=youtube_share;CuUReqRLAbc]http://youtu.be/CuUReqRLAbc[/video]
[video=youtube_share;foxKX7ohd5Y]http://youtu.be/foxKX7ohd5Y[/video]

Then there was Lil Johnson nearly a decade later:
[video=youtube_share;mcHYqNIV7GU]http://youtu.be/mcHYqNIV7GU[/video]

It all makes Dwight Fisk seem terribly, terribly affected, doesn't it?

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Post war....1945-75..??

 

[majormajor]

Post war....1945-75..??

Hi HD. I guess every thread goes off topic once in a while!!

Getting back on topic, but staying with the recent "risque" theme, here's Bullmoose Jackson from 1952, with "Big 10 Inch Record"....

[video=youtube;Rws_7mLTqj8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rws_7mLTqj8[/video]

 

[majormajor]

And here, from 1951, is Fluffy Hunter, aided by Jessie Powell, doing "Walkin Blues"...

[video=youtube;4oKGc9xK2uU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oKGc9xK2uU[/video]

 

[vitanola]

Post war....1945-75..??

Sorry, wrong war.

I don't see a hard and fast divide, save for perhaps recording quality., and was hoping to perhaps bring up something unfamiliar rather than the same old thing. Besides which, I do assume that you knew that "Georgia Tom" is none other than Thomas Dorsey, the man who largely created the modern gospel music which transmuted into Soul.

There is always Jack McVea and his All Stars, a very fine though sadly forgotten jump blues band. When I come across one of this bands discs (usually on Black & White, occasionally on Exclusive) I always save it from the discard pile, if the record is not too badly worn.

[video=youtube;boCVMzycikc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boCVMzycikc&feature=share&list=PLA7BDF0BCE26FDEFD[/video]

He also occasionally featured the excellent Wynonie Harris, as in "Rock Mr. Blues":

[video=youtube;YY0M_CTWXQE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY0M_CTWXQE&feature=share&list=PLA7BDF0BCE26FDEFD[/video]

King down in Cincy waxed some interesting stuff, including this Roy Brown platter form 1950 or thereabouts;

[video=youtube_share;LoH3xDjj5kw]http://youtu.be/LoH3xDjj5kw[/video]

 

[majormajor]

the modern gospel music which transmuted into Soul.

Your opinion, I assume (which, of course, you are perfectly entitled to), but, IMHO, Gospel did not "transmute" into Soul.

To transmute means to change form from one thing to another. Gospel did not change form into Soul.

Yes, of course Gospel influenced Soul - it influenced it greatly - but then so did Blues, RnB, and Country.

And ALL these forms still exist. Nothing has "transmuted".

Solomon Burke, Don Covay and Wilson Pickett might all have started out as Gospel singers, but when Ahmet Ertegun & Jerry Wexler mixed them up with Country Rock players like Steve Cropper & Donald "Duck" Dunn at Stax Studios, the result was not any transmutation. It was, at the time, a new music.

The soul coming out of Chess in Chicago was largely reliant on ex street musicians (with little or no Gospel background) such as Ike Turner, and the Detroit Soul sound was created by Jazz musicians.

And commentators will speak, when discussing the likes of Sam Cooke, James Carr and Otis Redding, of how they all turned their back on Gospel in order to become Soul singers. Sam Cooke even tried putting his "secular" songs out under a pseudonym (Dale Cooke) in order to not upset his old Gospel fanbase.

Folks clapping along to Gospel will clap to an entirely different accented rhythm to a Soul handclap.

Yes - Gospel was a huge source of talent for Soul to draw on. But, IMHO, one didn't turn into the other

Here's James Carr with an archetypal bass-led Soul sound from the 60's. Yes, he started out singing Gospel, but Gospel this ain't..

[video=youtube;Nqb6Du34r1s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqb6Du34r1s[/video]

 

[vitanola]

Your opinion, I assume (which, of course, you are perfectly entitled to), but, IMHO, Gospel did not "transmute" into Soul.

To transmute means to change form from one thing to another. Gospel did not change form into Soul.

Yes, of course Gospel influenced Soul - it influenced it greatly - but then so did Blues, RnB, and Country.

And ALL these forms still exist. Nothing has "transmuted".

Solomon Burke, Don Covay and Wilson Pickett might all have started out as Gospel singers, but when Ahmet Ertegun & Jerry Wexler mixed them up with Country Rock players like Steve Cropper & Donald "Duck" Dunn at Stax Studios, the result was not any transmutation. It was, at the time, a new music.

The soul coming out of Chess in Chicago was largely reliant on ex street musicians (with little or no Gospel background) such as Ike Turner, and the Detroit Soul sound was created by Jazz musicians.

And commentators will speak, when discussing the likes of Sam Cooke, James Carr and Otis Redding, of how they all turned their back on Gospel in order to become Soul singers. Sam Cooke even tried putting his "secular" songs out under a pseudonym (Dale Cooke) in order to not upset his old Gospel fanbase.

Folks clapping along to Gospel will clap to an entirely different accented rhythm to a Soul handclap.

Yes - Gospel was a huge source of talent for Soul to draw on. But, IMHO, one didn't turn into the other

Here's James Carr with an archetypal bass-lead Soul sound from the 60's. Yes, he started out singing Gospel, but Gospel this ain't..

[video=youtube;Nqb6Du34r1s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqb6Du34r1s[/video]

Well, "transmute" was perhaps a poor choice of words. Thomas Dorsey, Ethel Waters, and many other musicians brought their "blues" sensibility when they went into church music back in the 'thirties, and they created something new. A younger generation of performer brought that "gospel" sensibility with them when they went into popular music, and they also created something new and different.

Your sensitivity to the perceived charge of a performer's "turning their back" on Gospel to focus on more secular music is understandable. I suspect that I feel the same way when an the old canard about Whiteman being a killer of jazz musicians is raised.

As my own musical interests are focused on an earlier period, the importance of the A&R man to the creation of music is a bit foreign to me. I tend to think of A&R men along the lines of Harry McCalskey or Eddie King, men who really were more impediments to musical innovation. Then there were the expoiters, like Eli Oberstein who were sadly al too common. At best an A&R man in the old days was a gifted talent scout along the lines of Ralph Peer, Tommy Rockwell or John Hammond. The A&R man as creator, along the lines of Clarence Williams, was very much the exception.

After the war Syd Nathan, Jules Braun and above all Ahmet Ertegun turned record production into an entirely new creative art. One that some of us do not immediately appreciate, for our expectations were formed in a vary different world.

 

[majormajor]

Hi Vitalona

I reckon we probably agree, but we are each simply coming at the issue from a completely different perspective.

I am intrigued by your mention of A&R men, seeing as I didn't namecheck any A&R roles.

We both agree re Ahmet. Other than performers, the only other name I mentioned was Jerry Wexler, who, as well as being an integral partner in Atlantic Records, was, first and foremost, a Songwriter and Record Producer. I have seen him cited as performing A&R for Aretha Franklin, but John Hammond was far more important in that role.

Yes, he did nurture artists, but not in any sort of intrusive way. This song, "Come Home Baby",from 1964, was Wilson Pickett's first Wexler-aided stab at success. It failed miserably. Wexler simply persevered for a year, by which time Pickett had written "In The Midnight Hour" with Steve Cropper. The rest is history...

[video=youtube;AwZzHbiKWXE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwZzHbiKWXE[/video]

PS. The other voice on the record is Tami Lynn

 

[Peacoat]

Otis's tune is kinda dirty but nothing on the absolute classic... "The Ballad of Butcher Pete".
Worf

I was commenting on the "dirty" sax solo in the song, not the lyrics.


Edit Note: Major, I just noticed the label the James Carr song above is East Anglia Records--Ah, Norwich, and East Derehem. Truly a sweet spot on earth. Didn't know they had soul there.

 

[majormajor]

Edit Note: Major, I just noticed the label the James Carr song above is East Anglia Records--Ah, Norwich, and East Derehem. Truly a sweet spot on earth. Didn't know they had soul there.

Hi PC

Back in the 70's, there was a fashion amongst the Soul All-nighter crowd to sport patches on their overnight bags, sewn to a Levi jacket, or even as a blazer badge. That East Anglian badge is an example of just such a badge.

Here's James Carr in a soulful mood......

[video=youtube;kB0tMv2AKJA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB0tMv2AKJA[/video]

 

[majormajor]

We haven't had any Motown yet, so here's one which gives us an insight into the music biz in 60's Detroit...

Courtesy of Motown Junkies:

It’s early in the evening one day towards the end of September, 1962. The Temptations’ fourth single, Paradise, is being pressed up (along with a bunch of other new Motown records), ready for signing over to the distributors. The Motown rep who periodically comes to the pressing plant to check the print run notices stacks and stacks of boxes piled up in the corner, all full of seven inch singles.

Casually enquiring as to what’s going on, he’s informed that those boxes contain the complete inventory of the latest Fortune Records single, Mind Over Matter by Nolan Strong and the Diablos. The record was officially meant to have been released by now. It’s been getting some radio play, and indications across Detroit are that it’s going to be big. (For sure, the rep notes to himself, Berry Gordy Jr has remarked loudly and often how much he liked the record, and how he’d previously tried to sign Nolan Strong to Motown, with no success.) But some sort of organisational cock-up has meant that the distributors haven’t been able to get them out yet, so there they all are, still sitting in their boxes, still waiting to be taken away.

The Motown rep nods, makes his excuses, hurries out to a payphone and gets Berry Gordy on the line. Urgent, he says. Fortune have dropped the ball, he explains. The Nolan Strong record’s on the radio, but it’s not in the shops. Nobody can actually buy a copy. The rep doesn’t need to explain any further. Berry gets the point. Berry hangs up without a word. He’s got some calls of his own to make.

Gordy calls A&R. He calls the studio. He calls producer Clarence Paul. Got a top priority mission for you. Drop everything else you’re doing right now. Don’t care what group you cut it on. Just get me the f***ing record as soon as possible.

Within five days, Motown has its own cover version of Mind Over Matter recorded, pressed and in stores.

—

The story wouldn’t have a happy ending for Motown, as someone at Fortune got wind of the ploy and made sure the Nolan Strong record found its way into local stores, where – backed with Fortune’s undivided attention, as opposed than Motown’s need to prioritise its efforts on national chart prospects – it promptly flew off the shelves and became a regional chart-topper, squashing Motown’s competing version before it had had a chance to get started. But it’s illustrative of just how much could be achieved if Berry Gordy wanted it to happen badly enough.

The group Clarence Paul wound up recording Mind Over Matter were the Temptations, who (as noted above) already had a new single lined up; their record was due out on October 1st, and there was no point having two Temptations records out at once cannibalising each other’s sales and damaging the group’s image. The quickly-recorded cover thus went out under an adopted name; enter “the Pirates”, with Eddie Kendricks on lead...

[video=youtube;vU_7IAUjY7w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU_7IAUjY7w[/video]

 

[majormajor]

Some more Slim Harpo from 1966. Covered by the Rolling Stones six years later.....

[video=youtube;SGyAAWu3Gks]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGyAAWu3Gks[/video]

 

[majormajor]

We need a few ladies on here. Here's Lula Reed from 1961...

[video=youtube;SxsPxf8fNbM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxsPxf8fNbM&feature=youtu.be[/video]

 

[majormajor]

Or how about a little Latin?

Here's the High Keys, from 1963...

[video=youtube;VpqL4v3bfpI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpqL4v3bfpI[/video]

 

[majormajor]

In 69/70, the Chairmen Of The Board hit the charts with "Give Me Just A Little More Time"

Everyone was talking about the unusual voice of "General" Norman Johnson.

In fact, us Soul buffs knew all about Norman.

Here he is, with his group, The Showmen, from 1962

[video=youtube;jP7zQjrUEzc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP7zQjrUEzc[/video]