Post New Hats Here!

[Midwest Boater]

Just received this last week. It even looks good with a gray sweatshirt.

the more proud looking owners of the Fed IV i see the more im thinking i need one. That hat suits you to a "T" Dundee very nice indeed.

 

[ScottF]

That's very cool seeing an otter hat. Great detailed embossing. Nice to see that the size tag is still present.

Hopefully it's not like the entirely rabbit 3x beaver qualities. I know on derbies it can be a bit harder to tell as the felt is so stiff, but what's the felt feel like? A noticeable difference or step up in quality from the standard hat? Or do you think it was more of a gimmick? (i.e. I have a Borsalino marked that's it's made of pine marten and it just feels like any other borsalino)

Do you have any proof that "nutria" marked Stetsons were actually made out of otter and not nutria? I've just never seen this anywhere else.

If it is the case, why would Stetson mark their hats (for an English speaking market) with a Spanish term for the animal? And why just these hats? Why not a clear castor quality hat? [huh]

I've only owned two derbies, and as you say - it's stiff, but it does feel very nice. I'm going to keep it, so I'll try to feel a few more of these when I'm in antique shops, and report back.

As far as 'proof' - I just remember reading somewhere that stated specifically that the term 'nutria' when used by Stetson, was a Spanish term for an otter-like animal, and not the rat. It might be from "Cowboys at Work", but I can't locate the reference.

Now, I just dug around and found this in a book titled "The Cowboy Hat Book" (I hadn't read this before, so it's good corroborating evidence): pg. 19: "Nutria is a South American animal similar to a large vole or small beaver."

The key here is that 'nutria' was understood by potential wearers to be the otter creature from below the border, not the 'nutria rat' from the Southern U.S. We never used the term 'nutria' in the South, unless it had the word 'rat' at the end, but I guess that wasn't the case out west.

As far as why they used a Spanish word, my thought is that since the early Stetson westerns were work hats worn by Cowboys, and the really wide-brim ones probably evolved from Mexican Sombreros and were worn primarily in the desert-like Southwestern U.S. states, that it was actually a descriptive term that the Cowboys who bought them understood.

 

[rlk]

As far as 'proof' - I just remember reading somewhere that stated specifically that the term 'nutria' when used by Stetson, was a Spanish term for an otter-like animal, and not the rat. It might be from "Cowboys at Work", but I can't locate the reference.

Now, I just dug around and found this in a book titled "The Cowboy Hat Book" (I hadn't read this before, so it's good corroborating evidence): pg. 19: "Nutria is a South American animal similar to a large vole or small beaver."

The key here is that 'nutria' was understood by potential wearers to be the otter creature from below the border, not the 'nutria rat' from the Southern U.S. We never used the term 'nutria' in the South, unless it had the word 'rat' at the end, but I guess that wasn't the case out west.

I would interpret your reference as proving the opposite--the nutria is a nutria(rat) not the otter which is not comparable in appearance to a beaver or vole. The drawing and description from Sears also agrees with that interpretation. Nutrias are most associated with Argentina("South America"). River Otters are not necessarily from south of the border and Americans call them Otters. Nutrias were understood as Nutrias, the large creature that looks like a beaver but with a rat(vole) tail and definitely NOT an Otter
River Otters live as far north as Alaska and more associated with N. Amer than S. Amer.
http://www.riverotter.net/lutra_c.html

 

[carouselvic]

What you say is true, but S. America is home to the giant otter.

 

[rlk]

NWRC Nutria Range info

More N. American Nutria info than desired. They are all mid 20th(after 1930) century imports from S. America and not native.
http://www.nwrc.usgs.gov/special/nutria/namerica.htm
Includes this quote:
Northern Mexico: There is no documentation for nutria in northern Mexico; however, they have been noted in the Rio Grande River Valley on the border between Mexico and Texas in Big Bend National Park (J. Carter, USGS). Therefore, it is probable that suitable marsh area on the Mexican side of the border is inhabited by nutria.
Origin of Nutria

 

[Scott Wood]

New arrival

This arrived in today's post...

It is "Quality made for Sears Roebuck", and I am trying to restore the inner paper tag (using techniques from photo restoration) to make it legible. I am hoping that it is in fact a Pilgrim but at present I can only make out the "Imported Fur" and sears on the sweatband so until I have proof will only put into new hats because I am sure of that lol.
It is very silky, very fine and light, so light in fact I may have to stiffen to get it to retain a bash of any kind.
I like it and it's comfy, I got it for next to nothing, so I am happy no matter[huh]

Woody

 

[billyspew]

This arrived in today's post...

Woody, really like this ribbon, very nice.

 

[ScottF]

I would interpret your reference as proving the opposite--the nutria is a nutria(rat) not the otter which is not comparable in appearance to a beaver or vole. The drawing and description from Sears also agrees with that interpretation. Nutrias are most associated with Argentina("South America"). River Otters are not necessarily from south of the border and Americans call them Otters. Nutrias were understood as Nutrias, the large creature that looks like a beaver but with a rat(vole) tail and definitely NOT an Otter
River Otters live as far north as Alaska and more associated with N. Amer than S. Amer.
http://www.riverotter.net/lutra_c.html

I think that the picture of the nutria that you provided does NOT have the rat tail from what I can tell, but something more similar to the Otter image on my hat. I can positively say that I read what I stated above (regarding 'nutria' referring to a South American otter). Also, it sounds to me that you're saying 'nutria' never refers to any type of 'otter', and that conflicts directly with what I read (and can't find the source) as well as with what I quoted above from 'The Cowboy Hat Book'.

 

[rlk]

I think that the picture of the nutria that you provided does NOT have the rat tail from what I can tell, but something more similar to the Otter image on my hat. I can positively say that I read what I stated above (regarding 'nutria' referring to a South American otter). Also, it sounds to me that you're saying 'nutria' never refers to any type of 'otter', and that conflicts directly with what I read (and can't find the source) as well as with what I quoted above from 'The Cowboy Hat Book'.

My last word. The creatures of the southern USA are escaped attempts at farming Nutrias from S. Amer. from a period later than your hat and 30+ years and more later than the Catalog. Otter heads and body shapes don't look like a rat or beaver. On that Sears drawing I entirely disagree with you. Otters were called Otters and were plentiful in North America(most often trapped from northern climates) at that time while Nutria were only S. American imports and not native wild creatures as they are in your modern experience. Southwesterners and Mexicans would not have seen them in the wild at all, thus they are from"S. America" again and again. Otters, although present all over, have no such association despite common reference to both creatures in modern Spanish "Nutria"usage. on to an actual new hat...

 

[Dundee]

Great hat, Dundee. By the way, who are in the portraits in the background?

That is Colonel John Singleton Mosby and his partisan rangers.

 

[Dundee]

Judging from the photos on the wall gray is an old family color.
BTW nice hat

Very good observation.

 

[rlk]

Mossant

"Mine" Dark Gray telescope with 2-3/8" overwelt brim and 3-1/2" crown. A skimpy 7-1/8 in size.

 

[carouselvic]

Very good observation.

I've a firm grasp of the painfully obvious!!!

 

[Dundee]

the more proud looking owners of the Fed IV i see the more im thinking i need one. That hat suits you to a "T" Dundee very nice indeed.

Thank you sir. When you get your Fed IV I know you will enjoy it very much. It is a great hat and having the opportunity to do your own bash is very satisfying experience.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Here's what Crofut & Knapp had to say on the subject of nutria and otters in 1924:

The Nutria
The nutria, or coypu, as it is properly called, is found only in the River de la Plata of Argentina. Nutria fur contributes brute strength to a felt, but lacks some of the pleasanter features of beaver, or the finer grades of hare’s fur.

The Otter
The fur of the otter is used to a limited extent by hatters owing to its demand for women’s wear and for men’s coats. The animal is found in this country.


Brad

 

[Aureliano]

I would interpret your reference as proving the opposite--the nutria is a nutria(rat) not the otter which is not comparable in appearance to a beaver or vole. The drawing and description from Sears also agrees with that interpretation. Nutrias are most associated with Argentina("South America"). River Otters are not necessarily from south of the border and Americans call them Otters. Nutrias were understood as Nutrias, the large creature that looks like a beaver but with a rat(vole) tail and definitely NOT an Otter
River Otters live as far north as Alaska and more associated with N. Amer than S. Amer.
http://www.riverotter.net/lutra_c.html

I lived and grew up in Argentina. The nutrias I saw looked like, or resembled otters and never had a rat-like tale. I totally agree with Scottf's assessment. We also called them nutria silvestre.

 

[jwalls]

GENTLEMEN AND SUE,

The hats for last week look exceptionally dapper. I've ben tied up at the SASS Convention for a week and had not gotten an opportunity to check in for a while. I get some pictures up this week.:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[GallatinHatMan]

That is Colonel John Singleton Mosby and his partisan rangers.

I knew he looked familiar. I have Jackson, Lee, Stuart, William B. Bate, Todd Carter and the VMI boys at New Market. Gray is a very good color, as is butternut.

 

[rlk]

I lived and grew up in Argentina. The nutrias I saw looked like, or resembled otters and never had a rat-like tale. I totally agree with Scottf's assessment. We also called them nutria silvestre.

I'm agreeing that Scotts hat is Otter and both creatures are called Nutria in Spanish. The beast more commonly used for felt(Nutria in English) is native only to South America and has only entered N> America since 1930's as farm escapees and it isn't an Otter. Yes, there are Otters(English term) in South America like on Scotts hat as well, they are just generally used for fur, not felt. The assertion that Nutria refers to the Otter in North American hat-making is simply not historically correct.
Another historical reference:
This section is from the "A Complete Dictionary of Dry Goods" book, by George S. Cole.(1892) Also available from Amazon: A complete dictionary of dry goods and history of silk, cotton, linen, wool and other fibrous substances,: Including a full explanation of the modern processes ... together with various useful tables.

Nutria Fur

Nutria Fur. The fur of an animal of the genus rodent, somewhat resembling both the musk-rat and the beaver. It is smaller than the latter, but larger than the former. It inhabits the banks of the rivers in Buenos Ayres and Chili, being a kind of water rat. Nutria skins are dressed and dyed as a substitute for seal-skin, and the fur is used in the manufacture of hats as a substitute for beaver, which of late years has grown scarce. [See Furs, Hats and Caps]

 

[Aureliano]

ost New Hats Here!
If you have a beautiful cat , you must match to a pair of shoes , so come here to chooes a pair of shoes , 1.Best quality with the reasonable price 2.Payment: Western Union / Money Gram 3.shippi... http://gobrandmall.com/

Seriously? One thing is talking about nutrias that relate to hats and, specifically, to a new hat posted by a lounger. But shoes?...I might be overreacting here (forgive me, I had mexican chiles for dinner ) but shouldn't this post be somewhere else?:rage: