Post New Hats Here!

[rlk]

I’m so excited. I bought this hat from Ebay UK about a month ago and its been floating around customs for the last month or so. I finally got it yesterday after 30 days and I was kind of shocked to see what I got. The auction pictures and description stated that the hat was a 1950’s Dunn & Co fedora, but based on the sweatband and sweatband markings, I knew it was much older. The brim was very misshapen and the hat needed a good brushing. When I got the package, customs has crushed it pretty good, but when I pulled the hat out of the box, I was shocked. The quality of this hat is by far the best that Ive ever held in my hand from any manufacture. I steamed, hard brushed, soft brushed, and reshaped the brim and the end result was so much better than I had hoped.

There are a few little moth tracks here and there, but overall the hat is in excellent shape. There must be a high content of Beaver in this hat. The felt is moldable like clay. There is a softness, lightness, and firmness that can only be had by beaver. Im unsure if the hat is 100% Beaver, but I know the content is pretty high. The sweatband quality is the best that Ive seen. The Calf Leather is still extremely soft, subtle, and pliable. The coolest thing about the hat is that even though I believe it dates from the 20’s or 30’s, as soon as I applied steam, the felt stiffened right up as if it had never been crushed or never sat around for 90 years. The brim does NOT snap at all in front. This hat has that very cool 1920’s slight curl, but I didn’t know it until I steamed the brim. It was almost like the brim told me how to recurl it. The brim was pretty much flat, and then…presto…..the curl was back.

I am going on record saying that vintage felt, stiffener, and craftsmanship was FAR SUPERIOR than anything you can buy off the shelf today. I love this hat, and I actually wore it to work today. It’s the first time that ive worn this type of curled hat out of the house and it felt great. Heres some pics:

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Congratulations on finding the hat style you were after and a fine example. Beaver isn't required for the amazing shaping qualities of these early hats. Other fur sources(Muskrat, Nutria,Otter, Seal, Hare) that were used then or blended and less outrageously priced were capable of this performance. None of my 100% Beaver hats shape quite as firmly and smoothly as some of these early hats--most don't feel or look like pure Beaver. Doesn't really matter, for all I know it was a special shellac formula like the varnish on some Violins in addition to the fur particulars. As some early Stetson Standard Quality and No. 1 Quality have these characteristics it can't simply be attributed only to Beaver.

Outstanding hat that looks great on you.

 

[Marshall]

Congrats Joshbru3, that is one fantastic lid, looks great on you.

 

[Joshbru3]

Hey Joshbru, that's a sharp looking sombrero, my friend!!

edit: RickB, I hadn't checked the previous page when I made my first comment. That vented hat is killer, dude. I love the hat, and I wish I could find something similar. Great find, may you wear it long and prosper!

Congrats Joshbru3, that is one fantastic lid, looks great on you.

Thanks very much scooter & Marshall!!

 

[gtdean48]

Great hat - and I really dig that swoop. I believe the Deputy will approve of it as well. :eusa_clap:eusa_clap

Diamond Mario, you know what I like! Sweet Swoop for sure Rick. Those type vents are what inspired me to do some on my latest Work of Art, plus seeing Art's hat with them. Great score!

 

[Joshbru3]

Congratulations on finding the hat style you were after and a fine example. Beaver isn't required for the amazing shaping qualities of these early hats. Other fur sources(Muskrat, Nutria,Otter, Seal, Hare) that were used then or blended and less outrageously priced were capable of this performance. None of my 100% Beaver hats shape quite as firmly and smoothly as some of these early hats--most don't feel or look like pure Beaver. Doesn't really matter, for all I know it was a special shellac formula like the varnish on some Violins in addition to the fur particulars. As some early Stetson Standard Quality and No. 1 Quality have these characteristics it can't simply be attributed only to Beaver.

Outstanding hat that looks great on you.

Thank you very much, Robert! I really appreciate the kind words. I wonder if the shellac of this period attributed to the clay like moldability of these early hats more so than anything else. I had a 1920's Tan Stetson Excellent Quality at one time. That hat had the exact same feel as this Dunn. The Dunn is pounced a little nicer in my opinion, but the the overall feel of the felt is extremely similar between both hats. Both hats didn't need steam to hold a crease, but when it was applied, the felt instantly became firm enough to hold the crease, yet gentle enough not to seem like cardboard. I've had later hats that form easy as well, but not the same. I'm sure you know exactly what I'm talking about. These early hats have something that the later ones didn't, and I'm completely unsure what that is. Was there a reason that the manufactures at that time chose to use other fur sources(Muskrat, Nutria,Otter, Seal, Hare)? Was it just a matter of price? Or did those other furs have a certain benefit over beaver?

 

[rlk]

Beaver was nearly trapped to extinction, yet was desirable for fur garments as well as hats. This made it far too expensive for most hats except limited use mostly from leftovers from the garment industry. Other species were more plentiful and less in demand for other purposes, thus more practical economically, yet with similar properties.

 

[Joshbru3]

Beaver was nearly trapped to extinction, yet was desirable for fur garments as well as hats. This made it far too expensive for most hats except limited use mostly from leftovers from the garment industry. Other species were more plentiful and less in demand for other purposes, thus more practical economically, yet with similar properties.

Makes perfect sense. Thank you very much for the information. :eusa_clap

 

[jimmy the lid]

Beaver was nearly trapped to extinction, yet was desirable for fur garments as well as hats. This made it far too expensive for most hats except limited use mostly from leftovers from the garment industry.

rlk -- this seems to be a rather broad observation. Are you tying it to a particular timeframe?

Cheers,
JtL

 

[rlk]

rlk -- this seems to be a rather broad observation. Are you tying it to a particular timeframe?

Cheers,
JtL

Its certainly true for the pre-Depression period, after that time other market forces came into play temporarily(Economy/War). Later, Beavers recovered some and Beaver fur garments became less popular and general hat sales declined slightly. Supply and Demand which works pretty well for this commodity would indicate Beaver would be more available and less expensive but still a very limited luxury item.
I wish there was better mid-century documentation. Given that the vast majority of hats competitively priced were made of furs of the Rabbit varieties, I believe many of the "Beaver" qualities commonly assumed of mid-priced and better makes may well have been provided by other species at a more competitive cost. The fine qualities of some early hats(almost certainly Beaver-free) supports the possibility of this theory as does the high price points of the 40,50 and 100. The 100 may well be "cut" garment fur rather than "blown" beaver as well as better luggage.

Hopefully your '53 Hat Life has some fur and cost statistics and can shed more light on the subject.

 

[buler]

Its certainly true for the pre-Depression period, after that time other market forces came into play temporarily(Economy/War). Later, Beavers recovered some and Beaver fur garments became less popular and general hat sales declined slightly. Supply and Demand which works pretty well for this commodity would indicate Beaver would be more available and less expensive but still a very limited luxury item.
I wish there was better mid-century documentation. Given that the vast majority of hats competitively priced were made of furs of the Rabbit varieties, I believe many of the "Beaver" qualities commonly assumed of mid-priced and better makes may well be provided by other species at a more competitive cost. The fine qualities of some early hats(almost certainly Beaver-free) supports the possibility of this theory as does the high price points of the 40,50 and 100. The 100 may well be "cut" garment fur rather than "blown" beaver as well as better luggage.

Hopefully your '53 Hat Life has some fur and cost statistics and can shed more light on the subject.

It is interesting reading (for me anyway) if you search google books on "beaver extinction". You'll see how it happened in Europe and other non-North American areas. Then in the mid to late 1800's here in North America. You'll find that in the early 1900's there were laws passed to limit or stop trapping of beavers. Also, when reading about felting in publications from the late 1800's into the 1900's they talk about Nutria and other non-Beaver furs along with the process of adding just an outer layer of Beaver fur to the hat body.

Once the demand/price of Beaver fur decreased (one would assume it did eventually) and the availability of Beavers increased (again, an assumption) what was the usage of Beaver fur in felting? Still looking for more data from the 20's, 30s, etc. on Beaver fur cost/usage.

B

 

[Jedwbpm]

Its certainly true for the pre-Depression period, after that time other market forces came into play temporarily(Economy/War). Later, Beavers recovered some and Beaver fur garments became less popular and general hat sales declined slightly. Supply and Demand which works pretty well for this commodity would indicate Beaver would be more available and less expensive but still a very limited luxury item.
I wish there was better mid-century documentation. Given that the vast majority of hats competitively priced were made of furs of the Rabbit varieties, I believe many of the "Beaver" qualities commonly assumed of mid-priced and better makes may well be provided by other species at a more competitive cost. The fine qualities of some early hats(almost certainly Beaver-free) supports the possibility of this theory as does the high price points of the 40,50 and 100. The 100 may well be "cut" garment fur rather than "blown" beaver as well as better luggage.

Hopefully your '53 Hat Life has some fur and cost statistics and can shed more light on the subject.

Forgive me if I am asking a question you have answered before. You seem to be saying that for most of the 20th century beaver was not used as much as we think and that the quality of felt had to do with other factors other then the % of beaver. If that is true and from what you have written and posted elsewhere what do you attribute to the higher quality of pre and post war felt. The Machine's in Texas I assume are the same ones that Resistol used during their hay day so the felting machines are not the difference. I am sure it comes down to cost but what is the cost component that is being cut, it does not seem to be the price of fur.

Jeff

 

[rlk]

Forgive me if I am asking a question you have answered before. You seem to be saying that for most of the 20th century beaver was not used as much as we think and that the quality of felt had to do with other factors other then the % of beaver. If that is true and from what you have written and posted elsewhere what do you attribute to the higher quality of pre and post war felt. The Machine's in Texas I assume are the same ones that Resistol used during their hay day so the felting machines are not the difference. I am sure it comes down to cost but what is the cost component that is being cut, it does not seem to be the price of fur.

Jeff

I agree with the second sentence mostly but would not generalize near the degree of the rest. They used a lot of Nutria and Muskrat(20's & 30's has some data) which is more akin to Beaver than Rabbit also, and some seem to ignore the existence of these as a significant upgrade at a far more competitive cost. If a finer hat can be produced at a lower cost manufacturers will do it. They had to adapt when Beaver was truly scarce.
Mediocre felts have always been made and the ability to make a fine felt continues. Economics is a large part. Some procedures and chemistry/raw materials may have changed to some extent and are factors too but can't be quickly discovered or explained.

 

[rlk]

Satin Stetson 1900 Paris Expo

This 1981 Borsalino is very similar(a little shorter)

Clearly labeled size 7. Lots of sweat wear and some moth munches. This fuzzy felt does not display the special firmness and molding abilities discussed above and is likely purely of the bunny persuasion. It probably would improve with cleaning/steaming.

 

[mayserwegener]

I really like that bunny hat! Another super find!

 

[Dreispitz]

I really like that bunny hat! Another super find!

Youp! :eusa_clap:eusa_clap

 

[jimmy the lid]

Hopefully your '53 Hat Life has some fur and cost statistics and can shed more light on the subject.

I was thinking the same thing...

 

[Lefty]

Way better than expected on the expo hat. The auction photos were bad and made the hat look dead.

 

[ScottF]

Clearly labeled size 7. Lots of sweat wear and some moth munches. This fuzzy felt does not display the special firmness and molding abilities discussed above and is likely purely of the bunny persuasion. It probably would improve with cleaning/steaming.

Nice-looking hat - I don't recognize that liner logo (the 'Philadelphia' part at the bottom).

You must be up to around 200 by now?

Scott <=== down to 5 'wearable' and some bits and pieces

 

[rlk]

Nice-looking hat - I don't recognize that liner logo (the 'Philadelphia' part at the bottom).

You must be up to around 200 by now?

Scott <=== down to 5 'wearable' and some bits and pieces

Thanks Scott. Nice to hear from you. Yes, the collection is out of control.

Way better than expected on the expo hat. The auction photos were bad and made the hat look dead.

Only badly wounded. The vacuum made a huge improvement. There are some moth trenches on the underbrim.

 

[bowlerman]

I’m so excited. I bought this hat from Ebay UK about a month ago and its been floating around customs for the last month or so. I finally got it yesterday after 30 days and I was kind of shocked to see what I got. The auction pictures and description stated that the hat was a 1950’s Dunn & Co fedora, but based on the sweatband and sweatband markings, I knew it was much older. The brim was very misshapen and the hat needed a good brushing. When I got the package, customs has crushed it pretty good, but when I pulled the hat out of the box, I was shocked. The quality of this hat is by far the best that Ive ever held in my hand from any manufacture. I steamed, hard brushed, soft brushed, and reshaped the brim and the end result was so much better than I had hoped.

There are a few little moth tracks here and there, but overall the hat is in excellent shape. There must be a high content of Beaver in this hat. The felt is moldable like clay. There is a softness, lightness, and firmness that can only be had by beaver. Im unsure if the hat is 100% Beaver, but I know the content is pretty high. The sweatband quality is the best that Ive seen. The Calf Leather is still extremely soft, subtle, and pliable. The coolest thing about the hat is that even though I believe it dates from the 20’s or 30’s, as soon as I applied steam, the felt stiffened right up as if it had never been crushed or never sat around for 90 years. The brim does NOT snap at all in front. This hat has that very cool 1920’s slight curl, but I didn’t know it until I steamed the brim. It was almost like the brim told me how to recurl it. The brim was pretty much flat, and then…presto…..the curl was back.

I am going on record saying that vintage felt, stiffener, and craftsmanship was FAR SUPERIOR than anything you can buy off the shelf today. I love this hat, and I actually wore it to work today. It’s the first time that ive worn this type of curled hat out of the house and it felt great. Heres some pics:

Absolutely awesome hat, Joshbru! I especially like that brim shape on you.

Fished this one off the bay a few days ago. Pristine condition, and it has what I think you call an overwelt edge? It definitely appears stitched and not felted in. I feel a little dirty for straying from my tried and true bowlers and westerns, but I think I can get used to this.

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