Post Brexit import experiences

[Blackadder]

The VAT is due to the EEU, not to the UK. This VAT did already exist before Brexit, there is no reason a second VAT should be added now. The VAT is still due to the EEU, not the UK. I am lost with all of this...

I don't think so. VAT is charged by each member country. EU current directive is that such rate must be at least 15%. VAT is not paid to the EU council. EU's role is to ensure member countries do not undercut other to ensure fair competition within EU.

European Union value added tax - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[MrProper]

I did explain this earlier. For the last 20 years, I have received a lot of packages from the US, and almost never paid any tax. But each time it happened, that was around 35% of the total.
I knew that would happen here, since Brexit, with Aero.
But pre Brexit the "true" 20% VAT was mentioned on the invoice. I did expect this post- Brexit, but as you can see with the last pic I did post, Aero decided to remove it, and instead there is VAT : 00,00.
The price of the jacket stays unchanged, it should be at least 20% less in that case.
There was no way I could have known this before I did order last year.
The fact I pay the VAT + custom fees + DHL fees on a jacket that already has the VAT included in the price is not acceptable.
It seems like it has always been the case before Brexit, for all non-EU buyers.
But there is no reason for me to pay 35% now, because Aero did not find a correct solution.

I still think you are under a fallacy. We do not pay VAT twice.
Suppose you buy a jacket for 700 gbp on Aero's website.
This is the same price that everyone else pays to Aero.
If the purchase is within the UK, then the purchase price includes 20% VAT. Aero has to pay this 20% to UK tax. The end customer still pays 700 GBP.
If the purchase goes to the EU, then Aero also charges 700 GBP. This price is in this case without the VAT and Aero does not have to pay it to the UK tax because it is an export.
I.e. Aero has in this case 20% more turnover.
In the EU, depending on whether the item falls under the customs agreement, customs duty is due. For leather goods this is 4%. But these are only due under certain conditions. Often it is 0%. To these are also applied to the shipping costs.
Then in any case, depending on the EU country, VAT is due (France 20%). This comes on the price + shipping + customs. The handling costs of the forwarding agency for this whole handling come then as far as I know still in Top.
Export from the UK to the USA is similar, but there is often the tax-free limit higher and thus it is cheaper.
Legally there is nothing to complain about. I don't think it's morally correct to charge a 20% surcharge for non-UK countries.
But we definitely don't pay VAT twice in the EU, but +20% surcharge and then VAT once. Comes out to the same but has a different consequence.
Lewis Leathers, for example, deducts the 20% VAT when the goods go to the EU.
Ironheart already gives the final price including EU tax and duty.
So there is another way.

Honestly, it's this approach by Aero that is currently preventing me from buying another Aero. It's a bit of a matter of principle for me.

 

[MrProper]

Lewis leather does not refund VAT but would offer free shipping to non-EU customers.

Yes, they do. As soon as it is clear that the sale is going to the EU, you get the prices minus 20% displayed and invoiced. How it is with other countries (USA etc.), I do not know.

 

[Wildhorses]

This is not exactly what I wanted to mean, I did not use the right words.
Before Brexit, there was already the 20% VAT included and mentioned on Aero's invoices. This way there was no additional VAT to pay when the jacket was sent inside the EEU (in France, in my case) : there was no added VAT paid to France.

After Brexit, the price of the jacket was still the same, but intentionally the VAT has been marked as "non paid",
VAT : 00,00. That is the issue to me. Aero should have substracted the amount of the VAT to the price, in that case.
This way I would have totally accepted to pay all the taxes, including the VAT.
Does it mean that Aero pays a VAT to the UK now after Brexit, and we should pay an added second VAT to France ?

The amount of the VAT has to be substracted somewhere, if it's paid later through customs, with added fees.

 

[Blackadder]

An interesting comparison is Japan when it introduced its own sales tax a few years back. Some small shops do not offer sales tax refund because they cannot be bothered with paperwork. So for them, they actually pay the Gov't and do not pocket the difference. Back then the sales tax was merely 5% so it is quite understandable even for the customers to simply forgo the refund. Some shops offer a small discount in stead. The tax is now 10% and still some companies refuse to offer refund but I doubt they pocket the difference. They still likely cannot be bothered with the filing of the tax refund.
For example, a few years ago you cannot get a tax refund at the Warehouse Co Umeda store in Osaka but you can get a tax refund at its Namba Park store because the Namba Park shopping arcade tourist centre will handle the tax refunds for all shops within the arcade thereby relieving the shop's employees of the burden of filling and filing paperwork.
I doubt that is the case in EU when a 20% is at stake.

 

[Blackadder]

Yes, they do. As soon as it is clear that the sale is going to the EU, you get the prices minus 20% displayed and invoiced. How it is with other countries (USA etc.), I do not know.

A few years ago for non-EU, they don't offer VAT refund but they did at least offer free shipping. They seem to offer tax free shopping now.

 

[Blackadder]

This is not exactly what I wanted to mean, I did not use the right words.
Before Brexit, there was already the 20% VAT included and mentioned on Aero's invoices. This way there was no additional VAT to pay when the jacket was sent inside the EEU (in France, in my case) : there was no added VAT paid to France.

After Brexit, the price of the jacket was still the same, but intentionally the VAT has been marked as "non paid",
VAT : 00,00. That is the issue to me. Aero should have substracted the amount of the VAT to the price, in that case.
This way I would have totally accepted to pay all the taxes, including the VAT.
Does it mean that Aero pays a VAT to the UK now after Brexit, and we should pay an added second VAT to France ?

The amount of the VAT has to be substracted somewhere, if it's paid later through customs, with added fees.

As said many times, Aero pockets the 20% and has been doing that to all non-EU customers. Only change is it is now doing that to EU customer as well because UK is no longer member of EU. Reasons and explanations has been given. I don't think it is nefarious merely their way to protect the profit margin of overseas dealers.

 

[Marc mndt]

AFAIK, Lewis leather does not refund VAT

When I ordered from them last summer, they deducted VAT from the listed website price. Like they should.

 

[Blackadder]

When I ordered from them last summer, they deducted VAT from the listed website price. Like they should.

Well, looks like they have changed their policy after Brexit. My mistake then for not being up to date.

 

[Wildhorses]

(Original gain) - refund X (Before Brexit Tax) X (EU#non EU country) : (Post Brexit Tax ) X (EU#non EU country) = YOU LOSE, sorry

 

[Rich22]

If the true VAT is mentioned on the invoice, you don't pay the VAT a second time later through customs.

You're mistaken. You only pay VAT once if that VAT went to the country you live in. If it goes to a different country initially, then yes, you pay a second time via customs.

Edit: The laws are an ass, with every country penny pinching the individuals, and creating a logistical nightmare for companies around the world. As if every company in every country wants to register to pay VAT all over the world....

 

[Rich22]

Exactly, that's what Marc mndt told me recently. I should travel to Scotland to buy my jackets now. Or buy something else, I saw that great things are produced today in Pakistan...

Do Aero produce the correct forms so that you can claim back the VAT at the airport on the way home? I haven't asked this question of EU based jacket makers, but I would also visit and buy and want to claim the VAT back...

 

[Rich22]

. For leather goods this is 4%. But these are only due under certain conditions.

Do jackets count as leather goods or fall under fashion, because they are wearable? Fashion items have a higher rate, from what I can see online?

 

[Rich22]

An interesting comparison is Japan when it introduced its own sales tax a few years back. Some small shops do not offer sales tax refund because they cannot be bothered with paperwork. So for them, they actually pay the Gov't and do not pocket the difference. Back then the sales tax was merely 5% so it is quite understandable even for the customers to simply forgo the refund. Some shops offer a small discount in stead. The tax is now 10% and still some companies refuse to offer refund but I doubt they pocket the difference. They still likely cannot be bothered with the filing of the tax refund.
For example, a few years ago you cannot get a tax refund at the Warehouse Co Umeda store in Osaka but you can get a tax refund at its Namba Park store because the Namba Park shopping arcade tourist centre will handle the tax refunds for all shops within the arcade thereby relieving the shop's employees of the burden of filling and filing paperwork.
I doubt that is the case in EU when a 20% is at stake.

I've purchased a lot of sub £100 items from Japan over the years, and like you mention, I've ended up paying both Japanese and British sales tax/VAT. Shops can't be bothered with the paperwork.

 

[Rich22]

This is not exactly what I wanted to mean, I did not use the right words.
Before Brexit, there was already the 20% VAT included and mentioned on Aero's invoices. This way there was no additional VAT to pay when the jacket was sent inside the EEU (in France, in my case) : there was no added VAT paid to France.

After Brexit, the price of the jacket was still the same, but intentionally the VAT has been marked as "non paid",
VAT : 00,00. That is the issue to me. Aero should have substracted the amount of the VAT to the price, in that case.
This way I would have totally accepted to pay all the taxes, including the VAT.
Does it mean that Aero pays a VAT to the UK now after Brexit, and we should pay an added second VAT to France ?

The amount of the VAT has to be substracted somewhere, if it's paid later through customs, with added fees.

The EU was changing their rules regardless of Brexit. Previously the EU country of original collected the VAT from the customer, but this has ended. Aero dont appear to be paying UK VAT on the items shipped abroad, instead they just increased their profit margins, judging by your invoice.

 

[Rich22]

I have no such worries but I would not call that shaming. It is useful information for people buying from overseas. AFAIK, Lewis leather does not refund VAT but would offer free shipping to non-EU customers. I believe Simmons Bilt, Eastman and Bill Kelso also do not offer VAT refund to non-EU customers.
Aero did give an answer or reason for the price discrimination. It is pretty transparent say if you ask for a VAT refund from any of those companies as non-EU customer, the answer is no. So it is open knowledge in forums.

They all bump the price up for foreign customers? That's nothing short of appalling. I'm actually surprised it is legal in the UK, unless they ARE still paying the VAT.

 

[Wildhorses]

You're mistaken. You only pay VAT once if that VAT went to the country you live in. If it goes to a different country initially, then yes, you pay a second time via customs.

Edit: The laws are an ass, with every country penny pinching the individuals, and creating a logistical nightmare for companies around the world. As if every company in every country wants to register to pay VAT all over the world....

You mean that the amount of the VAT on Arero's invoices a few years back was sent to my country (inside EU) ?
I did never pay any custom tax inside EU.

 

[Rich22]

You mean that the amount of the VAT on Arero's invoices a few years back was sent to my country (inside EU) ?
I did never pay any custom tax inside EU.

Nope. But the rules changed last year.

 

[Wildhorses]

OK. We'll see what Aero decides, less margin, or VAT added on the invoice. But hopefully never again VAT 00,00, the worst option.

 

[Rich22]

OK. We'll see what Aero decides, less margin, or VAT added on the invoice. But hopefully never again VAT 00,00, the worst option.

Fingers crossed they do right by you. They've been great in my limited dealings with them.