Pocketwatches

[Shangas]

Sterling silver takes a lot to keep it polished and clean though, doesn't it?

One reason why I picked gold-filled as my watch-case metal is that it's easier to look after.

 

[KILO NOVEMBER]

Look for the three gold balls

Prowl pawn shops, particularly ones not too far from well-to-do areas. The American cable TV show "Pawn Stars" comes to mind. Three generations of men operate a pawn shop in Las Vegas. The stock as shown on television looks to be of very high quality.

I live in the suburbs of Washington, DC. There are any number of pawn shops in this area, and I'll bet that if were to troll them on a Saturday afternoon (when there isn't three feet of snow on the ground as will be the case this Saturday), I could find several candidates.

 

[sixties.nut]

RE: Look for the three gold balls

Look for the three gold balls

+1, or really any small watch repair shop near you. Anyplace you can purchase and develope 'some' kind of relationship. You will need it in the
future to fall back on.

Best,
sixties

 

[Tomasso]

Sterling silver takes a lot to keep it polished and clean though, doesn't it?

Tarnishing is the result of lack of use so if it's used regularly no polishing will be required. But if you haven't worn those silver cufflinks for a while....get out the polishing cloth.

 

[andy b.]

So I've figured out it's not an "I like how that one looks" sort of buying method. But where should I start some research? We were having a discussion on another thread that most "informational sites" really exist to drag people to their eBay store. So I feel a bit lost. Do you have any resources for me to look into?

Thanks a lot for the help,
flute

Go to the National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors web site:

http://mb.nawcc.org/

Just read through the pocket watch message boards and you'll quickly find out who the knowledgeable regulars are. Many times those same folks have watches to sell. As pointed out, with the high price of gold you will have to pay a good bit at present for a solid gold case. The good thing about a pocket watch is that you can purchase a good movement in a cheap silveroid case, and down the road switch it into any nice gold case (of the same movement size) you come across. The watch purists will scoff, but so many watch movements have been switched over the past few years it isn't as much of an issue as it once was.

One thing to remember about vintage pocket watches, they need regular cleaning and don't handle rough treatment well. It will easily cost $100 to clean and service a pocket watch, and that doesn't matter if it is a $20 watch or a $2000 watch.

andy b.

 

[Solid Citizen]

Vintage POCKET Watches

LOOK for a dealer that has, or can put, or will verify the watch is in good working order per their verifiable sales/service track record with vintage time pieces.

Solid Citizen

 

[Ledfeather]

pocketwatches, anyone?

my fiance generally demands i carry my phone, but i prefer my pocketwatch collection. i have some really old ones, some pretty new ones, and some that just plain dont work. but, for my time and money and lack of concern over car breakdowns, nothing beats fishing a pretty old watch out of your pocket.

i normally carry a russian one that was sold to commemorate the recent millennium, but i have an 1885 walthum that was made for railroad staff (the kind you have to take the glass off to set) and a lighted dial circa 1935. i was told that it was the first model with a lighted dial. the light is obviously fried, but it does keep time.

 

[Shangas]

I have two pocket watches. An 1899 Waltham and a 1957 Ball. Both very good timekeepers. Yes, even the Waltham, which is only 7 jewels. The Ball is a railroad watch; 21 jewels, 8 adjustments, the whole shebang. The Ball is my current daily timekeeper. Wearing it right now.

 

[ScionPI2005]

I currently have two pocket watches. My first is a 1904 Waltham size 18. I got this one in 2004 as a high school graduation present from my parents.

My second is a Illinois Marquis Autocrat made sometime around 1926.

I sadly don't wear them as often as I used to. Back when I was in college, I'd wear them in a regular rotation along with my wristwatches. I still wear the Illinois more often though on special occasions, as it is a more comfortable, smaller watch to carry.

 

[L'Onset]

Nice ones, but lost...


In my grandparent's house, in the village, there used to be three old gold pocket watches (XIXcentury) that belonged to an (to me) unknown ancestor, probably my grandfather's uncle or grandfather as it is his mother's home.Those watches were dispayed on frames on the wall. One day my mother thougth it was unsafe to leave them there while the house remained empty in winter, so she brought them to her house and put them in the safe. One day she took them out to take some pictures in order to make an insurance and forgot to put them back in... :eusa_doh:
The following night burglars came in and stole them as well as other belongings and some pocket money :rage:
I still think that someone knew about it...

 

[in/y]

I have a few pocket watches. I usually carry a 1920 size 14 Elgin that belonged to my grandfather. It runs great & needs just the occasional cleaning/tune-up. A good old-fashioned watchmaker isn't real easy to find these days, but with a little looking you can find one.

Here are some things to consider with watches. Firstly the size. Most men's pocket watches come in either size 14, 16, or 18. The bigger the number the bigger the watch. Personally I find the size 18 a bit big in a trouser pocket (It's OK in a vest for me), especially when you have a small cell phone in the pocket as well as I often do.

Second the case. The two main types are hunter cases and open face cases. The hunter case is the kind where you push in the crown/winding knob and then one side of the case pops opens revealing the face of the watch. Open face cases don’t have this feature.

I have both types. I find hunter cases to be a bit more cumbersome (though it’s certainly no deal breaker). Opening them is easy with one hand but when closing them, you really need two hands. The proper way to close a case is to push in the crown and while holding the crown in, push the case closed, releasing the crown button after it’s closed. Many people just snap the case closed which is really hard on the case and will eventually damage it.

The price of a watch is driven not only by the quality of the movement but also by the material the case is made of. You could spend a lot for a poor movement in a gold case or less for a quality movement in a silveroid case. Silveroid is a silver colored material made of nickel and other metals (I’m not sure what all is in it but it’s a common case material).

After deciding on whether you want a gold or silver colored case, I’d focus on finding a quality movement. Elgin and Waltham as mentioned earlier are good brands. Illinois is another brand to consider. There are other makers that were much smaller that made good watches too. The Trenton Watch Company and the Peoria Watch Company (but NOT the Peoria Non-Magnetic watch) come to mind. You’d have to do a bit or research on theses smaller companies to see if they made better movements or were part of the plethora of “dollar” (cheap) watchmakers.

The number of jewels in the movement is a good indicator of the quality of a movement. The more jewels, the better the movement in most cases. Though a 23 jewel watch might be a better quality movement than say a 7 jewel one, a well maintained 7 or 15 jewel movement will give you years of reliable usage.

With the major makers, you can use the serial number of the movement to date the watch. You can find this info pretty easily on the web.

I hope this helps. Let us know what you choose.

 

[FountainPenGirl]

Hi, To go back to the original question. Elgin is an excellent fine watch. It's by no means the most exclusive watch out there but probably was one of the most common. They had watches in all price ranges. Usually the more jewels the better time piece it is up to 17 jewels. They had up to 21 jewels but those last 4 were just overkill. Also the more jewels the more expensive. Before you buy on ebay do some research and get to know your item. Check out this website. http://elginwatches.org/. It is very informative and you can get a good idea of whats out there. Condition is everything. Look for running watches and especially ones that are guaranteed. Watchmakers are farther inbetween than they used to be as someone said earlier. It's best to watch and check what similar items sell for. Sometimes it helps to look at past auctions. Also check antique and pawn shops. It's nice to hold them in your hand and see what you're getting. I have a number of Elgins from 1871 up to the 1950's. Mens and ladies pocket, pendant, broach, and wrist watches. Elgin is my favorite. Hope this helps.

 

[DanielJones]

I carry a Waltham American that is dated from 1886 that I picked up on ebay for $46 (they said it didn't run, probably why no one bid on it, but about 5 minutes of minor tinkering got it running toot sweet). Size 18 so it is rather large but keeps fantastic time. Better than most of my newer vintage watches from the 40's & 50's. So you never know what you may get if you're patient.
Of course when folks aren't used to the ticking of such a large time piece that I'm wearing (especially in a book store or somewhere quiet) they wonder if I'm carrying a time bomb or something. Took me a while to find the right Albert chain for it as well. The one I found was from England and dated around 1888.

Cheers!

Dan

 

[Shangas]

In/y gives some very good advice, for which he should be applauded.

*ahem*

:eusa_clap

...Right.

Even though the Swiss love to say that they make awesome watches, the truth was that from the 1860s-1960s, the Yanks made the best watches in the world, with the possible exception of a few European brands. There are lots of things to consider when buying a pocket watch.

As In/y said, men's watches were invariably larger than women's watches. Men's watches started at 12 (sort of a 'unisex-size' watch), and went up as 14, 16 and 18. Most decent watches were 16-18 size. 12-size watches were common in the 1920s and 30s. 16 size watches were commonly used on American and Canadian railroads.

Some people say that the size of the watch determines its accuracy; to a certain extent this is true, but it's by no means gospel. I've got an 1899 Walthm 14 size 7-jewels that keeps excellent time. I've got a 16-size 21 jewel railroad watch that keeps time even better. So a small watch doesn't necessarily keep bad time. On the other hand, a larger watch doesn't necessarily keep good time; I've got a 1927 Waltham hunter-case watch (7j) which I've tried for AGES to regulate properly and it's just hopeless. I think I'll sell it and use the money to buy another watch-chain.

The reasons why I wear a pocket watch as opposed to a wristwatch and a mechanical watch as opposed to a quartz watch is...character.

Pocket watches instantly have an air of class that most wristwatches don't have. Pocket watches are an automatic conversation-piece. They're also generally larger and with less-cluttered dials. If eyesight is a problem with you, as it is with me, then consider buying a pocket watch.

Opening them is easy with one hand but when closing them, you really need two hands. The proper way to close a case is to push in the crown and while holding the crown in, push the case closed, releasing the crown button after it’s closed. Many people just snap the case closed which is really hard on the case and will eventually damage it.

Very true. If my hunter-case watch actually kept time, I wouldn't bother selling it, but as it doesn't (and I'm not willing to spend the money to have it serviced AGAIN), I'm trying to find a nice watchmaker who'll give it a good home.

As In/y states, cases can be decieving. Just because the case is gold doesn't mean that the movement is golden quality. Also, if you're considering getting a SOLID GOLD WATCH...1 - good luck, 2 - I hope you have deep pockets. Solid gold watch-cases are becoming increasingly rare and because of that, their prices are rising rapidly. Your best bet, if you like gold (like me) is to get a gold-filled case. They look just as good and they don't cost anywhere near as much as solid gold. Given proper care, they'll last just as long.

A good mechanical watch (pocket or wrist) will have a number of jewel-bearings inside the movement, ranging from...nothing...to several dozen jewels. A fairly decent watch will have 7 jewels. This will provide decent timekeeping. Most people put the minimum acceptable level at 17 jewels. If you want to buy a pocket watch which will keep really good time, look for a railroad watch; these were specifically designed to keep excellent time. They were made by several companies: Waltham, Elgin, Illinois, Hamilton etc.

While their price can be high, you can get lucky. I did. I snatched up a 21-jewel Ball for $160. Normally RR watches cost hundreds of bucks (the cheapest I ever found apart from mine was $400!!).

Most big American watch companies engraved their watch-movements with serial-numbers. Online, you can find serial-number charts for:

Waltham (American Waltham, American Watch Co. etc).
Hamilton.
Elgin.
Rockford.
South Bend.
Illinois.

And there are probably plenty more, which I can't remember.

Also: Don't skimp on the watch-chain. Wearing a pocket watch without a chain is inviting disaster. Chains were originally used to prevent pickpockets from stealing your watch, and for holding the watch-key nearby. Well, pickpockets aren't too prevalent anymore, and watch-keys are oboslete, but a good, solid watch-chain is still important. It stops the watch from falling out of your pocket and smashing to pieces on the floor. Watch-chains were made out of almost anything, from brass to gold to silver to stainless steel...back in the 19th century, women used to braid their hair, tie it up and give it to their sweetheart men-friends to use as watch-chains!

Chains come in as many varities as watches, and in just as many prices. My chain is a simple, brass Albert chain, just under a foot long. It cost me $20. Strong as an anchor-chain.

 

[fluteplayer07]

Bump.

 

[Naphtali]

I wore this watch (with gold chain and fob) one time - at my wedding. So although it belonged to my mother's father,
I have no emotional attachment for it. Having keyboarded that, it is a magnificent work of art masquerading as a timepiece.
Several years ago, I obtained its vital statistics by way of its serial number (shown). After its last maintenance,
all I do is wind it every third month to keep its lubrication where it belongs.

Here's a solid gold Elgin with three types of gold.

 

[Michaelson]

That is a MAGNIFICENT boxhinge Elgin, my friend. Keep it safe! It's worth a mint these days!
Here's the technical information on your watch movement:

Search Results For "14138287"
Serial Number SN Range RunQty Name Year grade size code jewels Adj/reg/etc.
-------------- -------- ------ ---- ---- ----- ---- ------ ------ ------------
14138287 14138001 1000 1909 339* 16s hbn6p 17j e


grade total runs first yr last yr class size code jewels Adj/name
----- ----- ----- -------- ------- ----- ---- ------ ------ ----------
339 50500 38 1904 1909 107 16s hbn6p 17j




I've found I'm carrying my Hamilton 992B railroad watches on a common basis now, as parts are easy to find and they're accurate to a fault.

A little tip if you tend to store your gold cased watches in a safety deposit type box. Do NOT store them with silver. Silver tends to 'outgas' and can actually cause gold to tarnish. If you have a watch out of a box that is looking pretty dull, chances are you stored it with another silver cased watch or silver coins.

Regards! Michaelson

 

[Shangas]

I hope you're not thinking of SELLING that watch, buddy. That thing's probably worth a fortune because of the gold-content. Keep it for your kids and grandkids.

Not many people can boast having a top-quality pocket watch as a family heirloom.

 

[Michaelson]

Agreed.

It appears to possibly need servicing too, as the regulator is a LONG way over toward the fast side of adjustment. You really like to see them adjusted with the whip to the center of the scale. When was the last time you had it cleaned/oiled/adjusted? With a fine watch like this, you don't want to run them without a good service every so often. Running them on old old is like running a machine using lapping compound. It will eventually destroy the pinions. This one is too nice to let that happen to!

Once again, a premier Elgin in its day!

HIGH regards! Michaelson

 

[Shangas]

A pocket-watch should be serviced, at the very least, once every ten years (some recommend once every five). I'd say that Elgin is up for another trip to the watchmaker's.