Pocketwatches

[The Lonely Navigator]

Need Suggestions...

Hello,

I went to take my 'fast food' pocket watch that I bought at Wal-Mart to get a new battery to the jeweller earlier this month only to find out that the thing is pretty much broken.

I need suggestions for a decent quality pocket watch that can stand abuse/heavy wear.

The price range I'm able to 'make peace' with would be, at the most, $100...I could probably do a bit over that to $150 (but it's cutting it close finacially for me).

Thanks in advance for all suggestions.

 

[Feraud]

Colibri
http://www.colibrimall.com/Product/CategoryPage.aspx?cid=59&gclid=CIOH3L6P4aICFZNo5QodPB_HzA

 

[The Lonely Navigator]

Thanks Feraud.

 

[jamespowers]

Hi James,

The watch is a late 1950s-early 1960s Swiss-made Ball railroad watch and it does have Incabloc shock-protection. It fell out of my pocket onto a rug on a carpet (a grand distance of about twelve inches).

When I picked it up again, I could hear the ticking, but also a sort of flat, metallic plucking sound, as if the balance was catching on something. It was a soft "plink-plink-plink..." I don't know what's wrong, but I do know that it's not natural, because it's never made that sound before.

The watch still runs in all positions and it didn't lose time, but I won't run it again until I've taken it to, and back from, my watchmaker.

Hmmmm. Sounds like the hairspring got out of whack, one of the escape jewels could have become loose or the the balance staff got bent. They don't have to break to mess up a watch. [huh]

 

[Shangas]

I sent it to my watchmaker and he had a look and listen...he said that there's nothing wrong. I'm yet to return to pick it up, but when I do, I'll ask him whether or not if, there is something wrong, I can still get it serviced under his 12-month guarantee...

 

[JazzyDame]

Assistance, please: Isaac Reed and Son Gold Timepiece...

Ladies, gentlemen, perhaps you can assist me. An exquisite timepiece has recently come into my possession, and I need some assistance with an appraisal or information regarding this jewel of a pocket watch. A bit of description: Inside the back of the watch is the inscription “Isaac Reed & Son, Philadelphia , 9107”. The center of the adjacent cover reads K 18 and what appears to be two symbols, each containing the letter ‘W’. In the very center of this cover is the inscription ‘L8’, and below that 9107. On the interior of the watch back cover is, again, K 18, two symbols, each containing the letter ‘W’, and the numbers 4647.

It is gold/Black Hills gold. It is in truly excellent condition, and is still fully-functional (it makes the most melodious sound as it ticks and keeps perfect time!). It is so extremely gratifying to hold a piece of history that demonstrates the genius of our time, figuratively and literally speaking. The paperwork enclosed within its case reads as follows:

“Watch originally owned by Matthew Emery Cox, Mayor of Washington, D.C. before it became D.C., owned Brightwood Estates in Washington.

Gold watch and key of grandmother, Lucy Van Zandt Cox. Willed to her by her cousin, Eliza Van Zandt of Buck County, PA. (Johnsville.) Will in courthouse at Doylestown, PA. Will probated in 1871. Given to Hazel Van Zandt Cox Parks by her aunt Elizabeth Dawson Cox Sullivan with her request to become the property of William Van Zandt Parks.

Property of William Van Zandt Parks, 1940.

Watch maker Isaac Reed and Son 1819-1825, Philadelphia.

18 Carat Multi Gold Case.”

(A handwritten note accompanies the paperwork, and contains the same information.)

I believe that there may have been some confusion as to the original owner of the piece, since the enclosed note stated that it was "originally owned by Matthew Emery Cox, Mayor of Washington, D.C. before it became D.C." I was told when I received the piece that it belonged to "the last Mayor of Washington, D.C. before it became D.C." According to the historical society (see below), the last Mayor of Washington was Matthew Gault Emery (similar name, and certainly associated with the family who came into possession of the piece, the Van Zandt Cox family).

I have contacted the Historical Society of D.C. and they’ve been kind enough to provide me with the following information:

“I can’t find any sign of a Matthew Emery Cox as a mayor of Washington. However I can find information related to some of the facts from the paperwork enclosed in the pocket watch. Many of the names listed are located in the information I have found.

Matthew Gault Emery was a Mayor of Washington and a very interesting man who did a great deal for the District of Columbia. He was married twice – the first time to a Juliet Day Weston who had two daughters, one of whom was also named Juliet. This daughter, Juliet Emery, married William Van Zandt Cox. It was William V. Cox who lived in Brightwood. He was a brilliant man who was successful at banking and a public-spirited citizen, interested in the history of the District of Columbia. William Van Zandt Cox was active in the Columbia Historical Society, the earlier name of our own Historical Society of Washington, DC, and in many other organizations including the highly esteemed Cosmos Club.

William Van Zandt Cox and his wife Juliet Emery had three children: Emery, Theodore and Hazel. Emery Cox married and had three sons: Emery, Jr., Harold, and William Van Zandt Cox II. Hazel married Charles O. Parks and had three children: Dorothy, Charles O., Jr. and William Van Zandt Parks.

William Van Zandt Cox also had a sister, Elizabeth Cox Sullivan. who is mentioned in the obituary column as Mrs. Theodore Sullivan. The funeral of William Van Zandt Cox was held up for his sister’s arrival. This explains your notes that Elizabeth Dawson Cox Sullivan gave Hazel Cox Parks the gold watch and key and asked that it become the property of William Van Zandt Parks.

I hope this helps your research. It is possible that a high value is attached to Isaac Reed and Son imprint.”

Here are a couple of photographs taken of said pocket watch:

Would any of you connoisseurs of fine timepieces be able to assist with an appraisal of or additional information about this lovely treasure? I would greatly appreciate any information or assistance that you may be able to provide.

Thank you so much.

Regards,
Cate

 

[Shangas]

Take the watch to an expert watchmaker and have him appraise it. This isn't something you can do online. It has to be done with the watch in one's hands.

Also, don't expect it to be worth millions, most watches aren't. Even one as pretty as that. Keep in mind that a lot of the vlue will come from the fact that it's 18kt gold, not from the age or how pretty it is.

 

[JazzyDame]

Take the watch to an expert watchmaker and have him appraise it. This isn't something you can do online. It has to be done with the watch in one's hands.

Also, don't expect it to be worth millions, most watches aren't. Even one as pretty as that. Keep in mind that a lot of the vlue will come from the fact that it's 18kt gold, not from the age or how pretty it is.

I certainly don't expect it to be worth millions, sir, but I have a unique opportunity for an interesting and valuable experience in learning more about the history of this timepiece---the watchmaker who created it and to whom it belonged on its journey to me---this is truly where its value lies. I thought perhaps there might be some history buffs in The Lounge who could enlighten me a bit, that's all.

 

[Shangas]

An expert watchmaker or an antiques dealer could give you the history and value of the watch; I mentioned the part about not expecting the value to be huge merely because almost everyone who I've seen ask "How much is my watch worth?" become incredibly upset when they find out that it's not worth much at all, which, unfortunately, is the case most of the time. Occasionally, you do get a watch which is actually worth a lot, but from what I've seen, it appears to be more the exception rather than the rule.

 

[Feraud]

Also, don't expect it to be worth millions, most watches aren't. Even one as pretty as that. Keep in mind that a lot of the vlue will come from the fact that it's 18kt gold, not from the age or how pretty it is.

No not millions but this is a case an appraisal shouldn't be based simply on gold being what gold is worth.
This watch is ornate and has an interesting provenance that put it above any other 18k gold watch. I believe the watchmaker was a noted one. I could be wrong here..

A professional, trusted appraisal is in order.
Keep us updated on your results Jazzydame

 

[JazzyDame]

No not millions but this is a case an appraisal shouldn't be based simply on gold being what gold is worth.
This watch is ornate and has an interesting provenance that put it above any other 18k gold watch. I believe the watchmaker was a noted one. I could be wrong here..

A professional, trusted appraisal is in order.
Keep us updated on your results Jazzydame

Thank you, Feraud. I believe you are correct. My research thus far indicates that Isaac Reed & Son was a prominent jeweler and watchmaker based in Philadelphia in the early to mid 1800s. I am really excited to learn the historical details of this piece. I have no intention of selling or trading it, as I’ve already developed a sentimental attachment to it simply because it has withstood the passage of time so beautifully and is still fully functional.

I will keep you updated as I learn more about this beauty.

 

[jamespowers]

Ladies, gentlemen, perhaps you can assist me. An exquisite timepiece has recently come into my possession, and I need some assistance with an appraisal or information regarding this jewel of a pocket watch. A bit of description: Inside the back of the watch is the inscription “Isaac Reed & Son, Philadelphia , 9107”. The center of the adjacent cover reads K 18 and what appears to be two symbols, each containing the letter ‘W’. In the very center of this cover is the inscription ‘L8’, and below that 9107. On the interior of the watch back cover is, again, K 18, two symbols, each containing the letter ‘W’, and the numbers 4647.

It is gold/Black Hills gold. It is in truly excellent condition, and is still fully-functional (it makes the most melodious sound as it ticks and keeps perfect time!). It is so extremely gratifying to hold a piece of history that demonstrates the genius of our time, figuratively and literally speaking. The paperwork enclosed within its case reads as follows:

“Watch originally owned by Matthew Emery Cox, Mayor of Washington, D.C. before it became D.C., owned Brightwood Estates in Washington.

Gold watch and key of grandmother, Lucy Van Zandt Cox. Willed to her by her cousin, Eliza Van Zandt of Buck County, PA. (Johnsville.) Will in courthouse at Doylestown, PA. Will probated in 1871. Given to Hazel Van Zandt Cox Parks by her aunt Elizabeth Dawson Cox Sullivan with her request to become the property of William Van Zandt Parks.

Property of William Van Zandt Parks, 1940.

Watch maker Isaac Reed and Son 1819-1825, Philadelphia.

18 Carat Multi Gold Case.”

(A handwritten note accompanies the paperwork, and contains the same information.)

I believe that there may have been some confusion as to the original owner of the piece, since the enclosed note stated that it was "originally owned by Matthew Emery Cox, Mayor of Washington, D.C. before it became D.C." I was told when I received the piece that it belonged to "the last Mayor of Washington, D.C. before it became D.C." According to the historical society (see below), the last Mayor of Washington was Matthew Gault Emery (similar name, and certainly associated with the family who came into possession of the piece, the Van Zandt Cox family).

I have contacted the Historical Society of D.C. and they’ve been kind enough to provide me with the following information:

“I can’t find any sign of a Matthew Emery Cox as a mayor of Washington. However I can find information related to some of the facts from the paperwork enclosed in the pocket watch. Many of the names listed are located in the information I have found.

Matthew Gault Emery was a Mayor of Washington and a very interesting man who did a great deal for the District of Columbia. He was married twice – the first time to a Juliet Day Weston who had two daughters, one of whom was also named Juliet. This daughter, Juliet Emery, married William Van Zandt Cox. It was William V. Cox who lived in Brightwood. He was a brilliant man who was successful at banking and a public-spirited citizen, interested in the history of the District of Columbia. William Van Zandt Cox was active in the Columbia Historical Society, the earlier name of our own Historical Society of Washington, DC, and in many other organizations including the highly esteemed Cosmos Club.

William Van Zandt Cox and his wife Juliet Emery had three children: Emery, Theodore and Hazel. Emery Cox married and had three sons: Emery, Jr., Harold, and William Van Zandt Cox II. Hazel married Charles O. Parks and had three children: Dorothy, Charles O., Jr. and William Van Zandt Parks.

William Van Zandt Cox also had a sister, Elizabeth Cox Sullivan. who is mentioned in the obituary column as Mrs. Theodore Sullivan. The funeral of William Van Zandt Cox was held up for his sister’s arrival. This explains your notes that Elizabeth Dawson Cox Sullivan gave Hazel Cox Parks the gold watch and key and asked that it become the property of William Van Zandt Parks.

I hope this helps your research. It is possible that a high value is attached to Isaac Reed and Son imprint.”

Here are a couple of photographs taken of said pocket watch:

Would any of you connoisseurs of fine timepieces be able to assist with an appraisal of or additional information about this lovely treasure? I would greatly appreciate any information or assistance that you may be able to provide.

Thank you so much.

Regards,
Cate

Interesting. It is definitely over 100 years old. I find that the firm was actually operating from 1830 to 1850 from the PHILADELPHIA SILVERSMITHS And Allied Artificers list online. Isaac Reed by himself dates back to 1820. The name changed around 1830. That figures as the watch looks like it was made after that time.
The movement would tell us much more. It looks to be a kewind/key set fusee watch. If it still runs then you are already ahead of the game. If the provenance could be nailed down more definitely then you would be even better off. I would have to see the marks to see what metal it was made of for sure but it looks right. Even the dial in watches made in this period could well have been gold. I have an example myself but only the movement as the case was likely sold off for the gold content many years ago. That makes these cases even more rare---if it is original to the watch.
Ideally it would be great if it had the name of the original owner engraved in the case. As it doesn't then it is harder to prove provenance. The records from who purchased what at that shop are long gone----unless the watch came with a receipt. Paper from that long ago with the type of ink they used would not likely have survived though---the ink sometimes ate holes into the paper over time.
The key looks to be an original to the watch. If it is one of the self ratcheting type, it is fairly expensive on its own. Not many of those survived either. Interesting that it is attached to the pendant loop with a much later clasp that was once on a watch chain. It would have normally have been mounted on the original chain to the watch by the ring attached to the side of the key.
The movement is accessed by depressing the spring catch at the 6 o'clock position below the dial. The movement swings out on a hinge. Be extremely careful if you decide to do this.
Every extra thing that this watch has will add to its value. The more jewels the better, the more complications the better etc. A rough estimate of just the case and face would likely be about $500 alone for 18K. It could be worth many thousands of dollars just depending on the other factors I mentioned.
Whatever the case, enjoy it. If you need an estimate for insurance purposes then I would go to an expert. They would have a better idea and they could hold it in their hands and get a good read for its value. Beside that, most insurance companies would need a written appraisal in order to insure it adequately anyway.

 

[jamespowers]

I sent it to my watchmaker and he had a look and listen...he said that there's nothing wrong. I'm yet to return to pick it up, but when I do, I'll ask him whether or not if, there is something wrong, I can still get it serviced under his 12-month guarantee...

Getting it serviced might be a good idea. When it is apart the defects are much more easily seen.

 

[Shangas]

The watchmaker said there's nothing wrong with it, so I've taken it back for regular use, but I am keeping an eye on it. I told him that if there was anything wrong, he'd be hearing from me very soon.

 

[shortbow]

$ value aside, that is a very beautiful bit of artizanship and were it mine I would be very happy and proud to have it. Good luck with your research into its history.:eusa_clap

 

[JazzyDame]

$ value aside, that is a very beautiful bit of artizanship and were it mine I would be very happy and proud to have it. Good luck with your research into its history.:eusa_clap

Thank you for your well-wishes, shortbow! Learning the history of this treasure is quite an adventure...I'll keep you updated as the mystery unfolds.

 

[jamespowers]

The watchmaker said there's nothing wrong with it, so I've taken it back for regular use, but I am keeping an eye on it. I told him that if there was anything wrong, he'd be hearing from me very soon.

lol lol lol Well, you'll find out soon enough if it is still ok. Maybe the sound will go away. [huh]

 

[Shangas]

Once I've got the funds together for a servicing (just in case), I'm sending it back. I'm just not satisfied...

 

[jamespowers]

Once I've got the funds together for a servicing (just in case), I'm sending it back. I'm just not satisfied...

Yeah I know what you mean. I am wearing a wristwatch today that is just killing me. It is a 1920 Roamer Watch company but it has been running slow. I took the back off and adjusted it all the way over to fast. It runs fine now but it needs cleaning and adjustment to be right(although I am sort of pleased that it is keeping time now).[huh]

 

[Shangas]

My railroad watch is my most prized watch. I want it to run PROPERLY. I'll keep it at home and chain up my Elgin today instead.