pleated versus non pleated back in the day, preference or more to it?

[reetpleat]

A recent conversation with a member prompts this question. Back in the 30s and 40s, did pleats come in and out of fashion, and was more conservative, or stylish, or flashy or what?

I have always tended to think it was simply a matter of preference, unless maybe you were talking about really flashy suits with really flared knees.

An odd thing I noticed. I have come across four or five four piece suits, with two pairs of pants. All of them had one pleated and one non pleated pair. Coincidence/

Or were the pleats for one time of day or function and the other for the other? Or did they figure the owner would wear their preference, and if they got ruined or worn out, they would settle for the other?

 

[curtishart]

Once the US got involved in the war effort, cloth and materials almost went 100% to the Government for military usage, resulting in a high volume of rayon created civilian clothing. In addition, because even rayon was in limited use and everything was rationed, extras on clothings like high-waist, pleats and even cuffs on pants were eliminated. Around this time was when you also saw the elimination of the 3-piece suit with the removal of the vest (as it was unnecessary waste of materials)

When the war ended, nothing ever really went back to 'the way they were' including clothes styles.

Hope this helps.

 

[John in Covina]

I think that the actual details as to the construction of the pleats has changed too. It is why on me modern pleated pants just doesn't sit right in the front. Matt Deckard went thru a little bit of info about old style pleats with me but i can't really recall the details at this time. It is one of those pesky details he has researched.

 

[Mr. Rover]

Also, I've tended to see that earlier 30s pieces tend to be flat-front pants, and as you transition to 1941, pleats and overall bigness comes more into fashion- beltbacks, shoulder padding, wider lapels...Marc Chevalier's has said his favorite look is from '37-'39, which has become the FL ideal. '41-'45, as people have said, fabric conservation was key, with the exception of zoot suits, which were actually a small fashion anomaly/rebellion to the norm and actually account for a very small percentage. And then post-war to early/mid-50s just keeps getting bigger and bigger until the mod/continental/"JFK" look becomes the ideal....correct me if my observations are wrong.
In regards to getting 2 pants with the suit, my observations may just be based on what has survived and what I've personally handled, but it is also in relation to fashion plates and period photos that I've seen.

 

[reetpleat]

Also, I've tended to see that earlier 30s pieces tend to be flat-front pants, and as you transition to 1941, pleats and overall bigness comes more into fashion- beltbacks, shoulder padding, wider lapels...Marc Chevalier's has said his favorite look is from '37-'39, which has become the FL ideal. '41-'45, as people have said, fabric conservation was key, with the exception of zoot suits, which were actually a small fashion anomaly/rebellion to the norm and actually account for a very small percentage. And then post-war to early/mid-50s just keeps getting bigger and bigger until the mod/continental/"JFK" look becomes the ideal....correct me if my observations are wrong.
In regards to getting 2 pants with the suit, my observations may just be based on what has survived and what I've personally handled, but it is also in relation to fashion plates and period photos that I've seen.

did you have an observation on two pairs of pants. I tended to assume they were just because pants wear out faster than jackets, but of the three or four I have seen, the pants are always if I remember right, one pleated and one non.

As far as your fashion history, I would agree somewhat, but diverge a little. I would call belted back to be a late twenties and thirties trend, that is distinct from the biggness trend. Basically, a belted back allows a trim jacket to stay trim and snug, while allowing a larger movement which was most commonly a sporty youthful look. Up to the late thirties, the trend was indeed trim, but with padded shoulders and somewhat wide lapels. During the war, while conservation may have been an issue, fits seemed to be getting a little looser, then after the war, of course, things got wider, looser and larger, but only up to the mid fifties, at which time single breated, narrower lapels, and slimmer pants became more popular. of course, in the late fifties and early sixties, the trend continued with even trimmer fits, narrower lapels and hardly a pleated front to be seen.

This is all just off the top of my head so no guarantees of accuracy.

But still, in the late thirties, there were plenty of pleated pants, but not quite as voluminous as the post war I guess. And flat front pants were not really much trimmer. They still had volume and did not taper much. I think it was mainly preference until the late fifties.

 

[Mr. Rover]

I should've clarified- the bigness trend I was referring to was more along the lines of shoulder silhouettes and lapels...the jackets were still cut very svelte with deep waist suppression compared to the jackets from the post-war period.
I haven't personally found too many suits with 2 pants, but all the ones I've seen on eBay and in others' collections were along the lines of pleated/flat front, and occasionally a pant and knickerbocker/plus-four.
The trousers from the early 30s, usually flat front, that I've seen and handled were definitely wide cut (like 19-21" around the cuff) with a trim, shorter jacket.
I've found that the American cut from war-time and post-war to be very generic- relatively less waist-suppression, wide square shoulder pads, some drape in the chest.
Early mid-30s style- Fred Astaire in Top Hat, The Thin Man, King Kong, a bunch of the Cagney gangeter movies... late 30s/early 40s- Philadelphia Story, Maltese Falcon, Casablanca, Bringing Up Baby...mid-late 40s/early 50s- Laura, Big Sleep, Holiday Inn (Bing Crosby)...mid 50s/early 60s- Sean Connery 007 films, Vertigo, North by Northwest.
A nice way to track all of the styles from early 30s through the 40s is by watching what William Powell is wearing throughout the Thin Man series