Pic of Winchester felt and Fepsa felt

[majormoore]

I guess I better say something here while this is going on. I have a fespa bodies, they are the 100% beaver, with the higest grade finish they offer, and they are NOT FOR SALE. Here is the deal on those bodies, they are very nice, but to get them the way we hatters need them is to place a rather larger hat body order, pay up front, pay all import fees and the wait could be as long as 9 months to get the $10,000 order you will need to place and pay for ahead of time. And the hat body does cost more than the Winchester body. Also, you have to know the gram weight, and what they call the crown and brim widths, they have a very hard work order to figure all that out. Plus the way the crown comes, you better have a really good source of steam.

The hat bodies that Winchester makes are what I use and will use, I support American made, Americans making the bodies, and that is why I will use Winchester Hat Corp bodies.
My money will stay with Winchester and here in the USA for at least making hats , or until something happens at Winchester that forces me to look else where.
Major Moore

 

[bond]

Good to know. Thanks for sharing your opinion.

 

[fedoralover]

I guess I better say something here while this is going on. I have a fespa bodies, they are the 100% beaver, with the higest grade finish they offer, and they are NOT FOR SALE. Here is the deal on those bodies, they are very nice, but to get them the way we hatters need them is to place a rather larger hat body order, pay up front, pay all import fees and the wait could be as long as 9 months to get the $10,000 order you will need to place and pay for ahead of time. And the hat body does cost more than the Winchester body. Also, you have to know the gram weight, and what they call the crown and brim widths, they have a very hard work order to figure all that out. Plus the way the crown comes, you better have a really good source of steam.

The hat bodies that Winchester makes are what I use and will use, I support American made, Americans making the bodies, and that is why I will use Winchester Hat Corp bodies.
My money will stay with Winchester and here in the USA for at least making hats , or until something happens at Winchester that forces me to look else where.
Major Moore

What do you charge for a fedora made from one of your fepsa beaver felt bodies, with no edge binding?

fedoralover

 

[Lotsahats]

I'm with Alan as well.

Tony, I am in no means undermining your experience, and I apologize if it came off that way. I have handled quite a few vintage hats myself and have refurbed quite a few hats as well. And in my opinion, just because a good finish and shine can be gotten from a Winchester 100% beaver hat body with tons and tons of work doesn't mean its always worth it. A good hat body should not require oodles and oodles of extra work just to get it looking "just right." Its just my opinion, but in a choice between a finished fepsa body next to a finished winchester body, fepsa wins every time. Their color saturation is far superior (very little to no mottling or spottyness) and fepsa shellac impregnation is far superior as well.

Thanks for this perspective, Josh! Pretty sure that I've seen old primary sources here that show rabbit felt hats being ranked as more valuable among vintage makers than beaver. To take nothing away from our hatmaking friends, guess the one piece of conventional wisdom around here is true: high-quality hats from the vintage hatmakers are beyond compare.

a

 

[mayserwegener]

>>
Pretty sure that I've seen old primary sources here that show rabbit felt hats being ranked as more valuable among vintage makers than beaver.
>>

There is a difference between Hare and Rabbit. For example the highest quality old Austrian and German Velours were made primarily of Hare (Saxon Hare is frequently mentioned as producing the finest) not Rabbit.

 

[besdor]

All the independent hatters should support Wincester as I believe they are the last independent source for hat bodies. Otherwise , you will all have to buy from overseas.

 

[Joshbru3]

This is going to be my last post in this thread (maybe on the lounge for awhile) because its pretty obvious that an apples to apples discussion of what raw materials are better, has turned into a "you don't know what your talking about, Winchester's products are great" back and forth.

Let me set the record straight in saying that I ALWAYS SUPPORT AMERICAN COMPANIES AND PRODUCTS. I always prefer to buy small business American goods over anything foreign. MADE IN AMERICA is VERY important to me. That being said, lets be honest, not every American Made product is far superior over a foreign good. Many are, but not all. Winchester may very well be the last independent manufacture of raw hat bodies in America, not counting companies like Hatco and Dorfman Pacific who also produce their own raw bodies. The problem is, because Winchester is the last of its breed in America, many hatters chose to purchase their products from them out of loyalty and convenience. My issue is, after handling their products, I am not at all impressed. Not one bit. Their 100% Beaver bodies are mediocre at best and tons of ironing and pouncing is required just to get a decent finish. After the hatter has spent all the time and work, the hat bodies still have color issues, density issues and shellac issues. Its NOT a knock against ANY hatter, I am simply talking about the raw materials in which the hatters DO NOT make. Winchester does.

Raw bodies from Fepsa and Tonak are superior. Yes, they are not American Made, but in this situation, they are better. I have to wonder if Winchesters customers demanded higher quality and standards, if winchester would abide. Sure the price of the raw bodies may go up due to extended felt processing time, but so would the quality. Isn't that what we all want....to produce the highest quality hats?? Well, high quality hats start with high quality materials.

I know for a fact that Matt and Hatco are working on some spectacular felt bodies that will really blow your mind. Its because Matt and Hatco understand that a high quality raw hat body is just as important as a finished product. It sets the base for a spectacular hat. As far as i'm aware, independent hatters are unable to purchase hat bodies from Hatco or Dorfman Pacific, so in the US, that leaves Winchester.

Let me finish by saying that I WISH Winchester made better raw bodies because I think every single American should buy American made products when they can. However, if there is no competition, what is the incentive for Winchester to make a better product? There isn't.

Buy what you like. Make hats with materials that you like. Don't take my word for it, because im sure there are people on the lounge who will disagree with me about everything I said. If you want to know who is better......Fepsa or Winchester........buy both bodies and make a hat. You know what my opinion is.

 

[fedoralover]

All the independent hatters should support Wincester as I believe they are the last independent source for hat bodies. Otherwise , you will all have to buy from overseas.

I doubt there will be any US hatters that will abandon Winchester and go exclusively Fepsa. I just saw a finished fepsa rabbit felt fedora and a winchester beaver felt fedora side by side made by Northwest hats and while the fepsa felt was beautiful, the Winchester beaver was the winner in the over all finish department. However there is also no comparison between the fepsa rabbit and the winchester rabbit. In those two comparisons the fepsa is miles ahead. Winchester beaver is great and I would highly recommend that if anyone is trying to decide whether to put out the extra cash for the beaver as opposed to saving a few bucks and getting the rabbit, GO with the beaver, you will not be sorry.

fedoralover

 

[Short Balding Guy]

This is going to be my last post in this thread (maybe on the lounge for awhile) because its pretty obvious that an apples to apples discussion of what raw materials are better, has turned into a "you don't know what your talking about, Winchester's products are great" back and forth.

Josh; I hope you reconsider continuing to contribute. I re-read this thread and while, up to this moment, have been quiet, I really have been learning and challenging my knowledge and bias from the posts.

It is the contributions of you, a few members gone from current posts and a few long term members that keep me reading. I hear and read a lot of light notes on the forum. I read your posts and other trusted source and the notes are LOUD, with texture and thoughtfulness. Do re-consider sir. Your voice is heard clearly at my house.

Hey Josh, you like me, must miss some of the gone voices (Al, Ale and many more). To all the wisdom corners of the forum - do not disappear. Wise and sage stuff needs to be heard. It may not wish to be heard, will be mis-heard, ignored or occasionally will be dosed with opinion. So be it. Many listen. I listen.

Best to all and the many ways of thinking passionately about hats, Eric -

 

[RJR]

I agree w/SBG.

 

[DJH]

Well said, Eric!

 

[Joao Encarnado]

Found this page and I didn't know Portugal had beavers... Looks like Fepsa makes 1000X hat bodies...
http://www.americancowboy.com/article/xs-long-ovals-25059

 

[JessieJames]

Fepsa bodies are pre- pounced at the factory when they are made.

I wonder if that's really what makes them softer. I thought it was the quality of the actual beavers in Europe VS North America and/or how dense they make them at the factory but everything leading up to the pre-pouncing might be quite the same and the difference is the factory finish pre-pouncing that with a machine, I'm sure achieves a much nicer finish than a person could

 

[belfastboy]

I wonder if that's really what makes them softer. I thought it was the quality of the actual beavers in Europe VS North America and/or how dense they make them at the factory but everything leading up to the pre-pouncing might be quite the same and the difference is the factory finish pre-pouncing that with a machine, I'm sure achieves a much nicer finish than a person could

I have yet to touch or see a FEPSA beaver felt. I do have a few FEPSA rabbit felts and they are superior to the Winchester rabbit but not as nice as a Winchester beaver. I thought the difference between the two bunnies is that Winchester is rabbit while FEPSA's are wild hare or at least a blend. Has anyone seen or held a FEPSA beaver and how does it compare to the Winchester?? When it comes to rabbit or the wild hare by far my preference is for the Tonak felt. Softer hand, and the dye seems more vibrant than either the Winchester or FEPSA. I keep trying to locate a FEPSA beaver but damn I might have better luck finding a unicorn felt.

 

[belfastboy]

Found this page and I didn't know Portugal had beavers... Looks like Fepsa makes 1000X hat bodies...
http://www.americancowboy.com/article/xs-long-ovals-25059

Agnoulita has some FEPSA beaver felts but limited in quantity and sized very small so he cannot get much more than a stingy brim for a small headed guy.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I have yet to touch or see a FEPSA beaver felt. I do have a few FEPSA rabbit felts and they are superior to the Winchester rabbit but not as nice as a Winchester beaver. I thought the difference between the two bunnies is that Winchester is rabbit while FEPSA's are wild hare or at least a blend. Has anyone seen or held a FEPSA beaver and how does it compare to the Winchester?? When it comes to rabbit or the wild hare by far my preference is for the Tonak felt. Softer hand, and the dye seems more vibrant than either the Winchester or FEPSA. I keep trying to locate a FEPSA beaver but damn I might have better luck finding a unicorn felt.

Is Northwest using Tonak for it’s ready-Made hats? I keep looking at a dove gray.

I don’t think that Agnoulita’s newly sourced 100% hare felts are offered in the wide and wild assortment of colors that Tonak offers, but I really do think the felt quality is better with the hare. The 100% nutria felt I got from Australia via The Hat Maker’s Emporium had incredible potential as a heavier felt, but mine had a dye problem that hasn’t yet been overcome.


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[belfastboy]

Is Northwest using Tonak for it’s ready-Made hats? I keep looking at a dove gray.

I don’t think that Agnoulita’s newly sourced 100% hare felts are offered in the wide and wild assortment of colors that Tonak offers, but I really do think the felt quality is better with the hare. The 100% nutria felt I got from Australia via The Hat Maker’s Emporium had incredible potential as a heavier felt, but mine had a dye problem that hasn’t yet been overcome.

Shit, I remember being in Mike's shop talking to him prior to the introduction of his ready mades but damn if I can remember the details. I do think they are Tonak as Mike is not interested in the huge opening order that FEPSA requires. I have 3 Tonak's and really like the finish on the hats. One from Esther that is wonderful, soft soft hand. Another mass produced Tonak that I picked up from Daniel that is a great felt. Again a wonderfully soft hand. Mike's ready mades are stiffer and lack the softness but the quality of the dye job and the finish is first rate. Mr Papa from Agnoulita did reply with sad news that his FEPSA beaver felts are small and will not make up into a hat with a tall crown, wide brim. .....my search continues!
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[KarlEscobar10]

Hi guys! First post here, I just wanted to ask if you guys tried getting in touch with the Fepsa team and if they responded? I emailed them a couple days ago inquiring about their fur felt bodies but no response. I also wanted to know about their payment process, I've read somewhere that you have to make an order first before knowing the shipping cost? And that they have a minimum order you have to purchase? Just wanted to clarify this as none of the client managers are responding to me.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Hi guys! First post here, I just wanted to ask if you guys tried getting in touch with the Fepsa team and if they responded? I emailed them a couple days ago inquiring about their fur felt bodies but no response. I also wanted to know about their payment process, I've read somewhere that you have to make an order first before knowing the shipping cost? And that they have a minimum order you have to purchase? Just wanted to clarify this as none of the client managers are responding to me.

Very few hatters in the US use FEPSA for fedoras. In my experience, they don’t respond to emails and the shipping was more than the cost of the felt so it only makes sense if you order in large quantities. Several of us have tried to find an alternative source for FEPSA as ordering direct hasn’t worked for us. Good luck.

 

[KarlEscobar10]

Very few hatters in the US use FEPSA for fedoras. In my experience, they don’t respond to emails and the shipping was more than the cost of the felt so it only makes sense if you order in large quantities. Several of us have tried to find an alternative source for FEPSA as ordering direct hasn’t worked for us. Good luck.

Thanks for the response! Oh I see, what was the cost of the shipping if you don't mind me asking? Also, what other supplier for hat bodies would you recommend if not Fepsa?