Pic of Winchester felt and Fepsa felt

[tonyb]

Yup, they seem about the best deal going in mass-produced hats these days. The styles are nice (and really, why would anybody buy a hat if he doesn't like the way it looks?), the build quality is at least on a par with the competition, and they have a reputation for durability. Takes a lickin', etc.

 

[tonyb]

Rabbit fur will not polish nor finish as nice as all beaver will

Major Moore

That's certainly my experience.

 

[Joao Encarnado]

(and really, why would anybody buy a hat if he doesn't like the way it looks?)

I keep asking the same but then the conversion corral thread exists...

 

[fedoralover]

I keep asking the same but then the conversion corral thread exists...

Speaking of conversions, I really like the color on this one and I don't have any stingy brims so I'm thinking of having it cut down to around a 1 3/4 inch brim so I'll have one.



fedoralover

 

[Joao Encarnado]

Speaking of conversions, I really like the color on this one and I don't have any stingy brims so I'm thinking of having it cut down to around a 1 3/4 inch brim so I'll have one.



fedoralover

 

[Joshbru3]

That's certainly my experience.

I think there are couple factors to be considered here. Will Winchester Rabbit/Wild Hare raw bodies polish or finish as well as Winchester Beaver raw bodies.....NO. But to be very honest, I don't feel that Winchester 100% Beaver bodies are that good either. Most of the amazing "golden age" hats were 100% Rabbit/Wild Hare and they polished/finished incredibly well. No hat body, whether Rabbit, Beaver, or Nutria, that is not felted dense enough as well as a hat body that lacks natural oils, will finish or polish well. The reason Winchester Beaver bodies finish better is because of course Beaver naturally felts tighter (that makes up for Winchesters lack of felt processing/felt denseness), but its also because Winchester Rabbit raw bodies are pretty poor in my opinion. They are not felted dense enough, not worked long enough, and have poor shellac saturation. If we compare a Fepsa rabbit body to a Winchester rabbit body... the results are much different. A Fepsa rabbit body will finish and polish beautifully. Fepsa just makes high quality raw bodies...period. If we are talking velours/long hairs...they were and are almost always Rabbit/Wild hare. Some of those gorgeous bodies are made by Fepsa and Tonak. They polish and block VERY well. I know that the overall mentality on the lounge is that "Beaver is better." It can be better, but its not necessarily always the case.

 

[beetleything]

Interesting post - thanks.

I think there are couple factors to be considered here. Will Winchester Rabbit/Wild Hare raw bodies polish or finish as well as Winchester Beaver raw bodies.....NO. But to be very honest, I don't feel that Winchester 100% Beaver bodies are that good either. Most of the amazing "golden age" hats were 100% Rabbit/Wild Hare and they polished/finished incredibly well. No hat body, whether Rabbit, Beaver, or Nutria, that is not felted dense enough as well as a hat body that lacks natural oils, will finish or polish well. The reason Winchester Beaver bodies finish better is because of course Beaver naturally felts tighter (that makes up for Winchesters lack of felt processing/felt denseness), but its also because Winchester Rabbit raw bodies are pretty poor in my opinion. They are not felted dense enough, not worked long enough, and have poor shellac saturation. If we compare a Fepsa rabbit body to a Winchester rabbit body... the results are much different. A Fepsa rabbit body will finish and polish beautifully. Fepsa just makes high quality raw bodies...period. If we are talking velours/long hairs...they were and are almost always Rabbit/Wild hare. Some of those gorgeous bodies are made by Fepsa and Tonak. They polish and block VERY well. I know that the overall mentality on the lounge is that "Beaver is better." It can be better, but its not necessarily always the case.

 

[RJR]

+1,certainly something to consider if ordering a custom.

 

[fedoralover]

Note to Joao,

I was just teasing ya my friend. I don't even own that hat.

fedoralover

 

[fedoralover]

I think there are couple factors to be considered here. Will Winchester Rabbit/Wild Hare raw bodies polish or finish as well as Winchester Beaver raw bodies.....NO. But to be very honest, I don't feel that Winchester 100% Beaver bodies are that good either. Most of the amazing "golden age" hats were 100% Rabbit/Wild Hare and they polished/finished incredibly well. No hat body, whether Rabbit, Beaver, or Nutria, that is not felted dense enough as well as a hat body that lacks natural oils, will finish or polish well. The reason Winchester Beaver bodies finish better is because of course Beaver naturally felts tighter (that makes up for Winchesters lack of felt processing/felt denseness), but its also because Winchester Rabbit raw bodies are pretty poor in my opinion. They are not felted dense enough, not worked long enough, and have poor shellac saturation. If we compare a Fepsa rabbit body to a Winchester rabbit body... the results are much different. A Fepsa rabbit body will finish and polish beautifully. Fepsa just makes high quality raw bodies...period. If we are talking velours/long hairs...they were and are almost always Rabbit/Wild hare. Some of those gorgeous bodies are made by Fepsa and Tonak. They polish and block VERY well. I know that the overall mentality on the lounge is that "Beaver is better." It can be better, but its not necessarily always the case.

Thanks for that honest assessment. I know that Northwest hats has to put a lot more work into a Winchester rabbit felt hat to make it look decent than he will on the fepsa rabbit. The winchester beaver does finish nice with a lot of ironing and pouncing though. But I'm anxious to see a fepsa beaver felt fedora finished out to compare.

fedoralover

 

[Joao Encarnado]

I know that the overall mentality on the lounge is that "Beaver is better." It can be better, but its not necessarily always the case.

Some of my favourite hats are the Resistol Stagecoach. No beaver there.

Note to Joao,

I was just teasing ya my friend. I don't even own that hat.

fedoralover

Why do you all torture me. It was really nice looking, I was almost proposing to buy it from you

 

[mayserwegener]

I think there are couple factors to be considered here. Will Winchester Rabbit/Wild Hare raw bodies polish or finish as well as Winchester Beaver raw bodies.....NO. But to be very honest, I don't feel that Winchester 100% Beaver bodies are that good either. Most of the amazing "golden age" hats were 100% Rabbit/Wild Hare and they polished/finished incredibly well. No hat body, whether Rabbit, Beaver, or Nutria, that is not felted dense enough as well as a hat body that lacks natural oils, will finish or polish well. The reason Winchester Beaver bodies finish better is because of course Beaver naturally felts tighter (that makes up for Winchesters lack of felt processing/felt denseness), but its also because Winchester Rabbit raw bodies are pretty poor in my opinion. They are not felted dense enough, not worked long enough, and have poor shellac saturation. If we compare a Fepsa rabbit body to a Winchester rabbit body... the results are much different. A Fepsa rabbit body will finish and polish beautifully. Fepsa just makes high quality raw bodies...period. If we are talking velours/long hairs...they were and are almost always Rabbit/Wild hare. Some of those gorgeous bodies are made by Fepsa and Tonak. They polish and block VERY well. I know that the overall mentality on the lounge is that "Beaver is better." It can be better, but its not necessarily always the case.

Very informative post! The finest old German and Austrian hand wet brushed Velours were made mostly of Hare mixed with small amounts of Muskrat or Beaver (some in a raw state) for durability. Saxon Hare is often mentioned for producing the highest quality. Beaver has great felting ability but it is mentioned that improvement in stains and other processes increased the durability of Hare felts. I have never come across any mention that Beaver fur produces a superior finish or takes color better than Hare (in fact it's the opposite). This is based on pre WWII German and Austrian documentation I have come across.

 

[tonyb]

I know for a certainty that a 100 percent beaver Winchester dress-weight body will take a finish to rival just about any vintage hat. I'm not arguing that everybody gets those results, but those results can be had. It takes a lot of practice, and more time and effort than perhaps most are willing to invest, but it can be done.

I'm doing what I can to avoid a defensive tone, but dang, guys, I don't say these things lightly, and I'm certainly not looking to argue with anyone who might have his own reasons for feeling otherwise. But know that I've owned oodles of vintage hats, and have refurbished a bunch, and have handled God only knows how many others. And I long ago lost count of how many all-new hats I've made -- from Winchester bodies, mostly. So this opinion is grounded in several years of hands-on experience.

I hear very good things about Fepsa bodies from people who know of what they speak. Good. More choices are better than fewer. But I'll trust my own eyes and hands before I abandon what I know to be a very good supplier.

 

[alanfgag]

A face to face meeting of the minds with head coverings in hand is what is needed. Perhaps a convention to mark the occasion of Stetson sesquicentennial in 2015?

 

[tonyb]

Good idea, Alan. My advance team will insist on a penthouse suite, though.

 

[Joshbru3]

Good idea, Alan. My advance team will insist on a penthouse suite, though.

I'm with Alan as well.

Tony, I am in no means undermining your experience, and I apologize if it came off that way. I have handled quite a few vintage hats myself and have refurbed quite a few hats as well. And in my opinion, just because a good finish and shine can be gotten from a Winchester 100% beaver hat body with tons and tons of work doesn't mean its always worth it. A good hat body should not require oodles and oodles of extra work just to get it looking "just right." Its just my opinion, but in a choice between a finished fepsa body next to a finished winchester body, fepsa wins every time. Their color saturation is far superior (very little to no mottling or spottyness) and fepsa shellac impregnation is far superior as well.

 

[bond]

Anyone have a Fespa body for sale by chance???
I tried ordering some sample felts from them but they apparently got swiped (lost) in Chicago delivery transit.

 

[Joao Encarnado]

Anyone have a Fespa body for sale by chance???
I tried ordering some sample felts from them but they apparently got swiped (lost) in Chicago delivery transit.

That's not good...

 

[1961MJS]

I know for a certainty that a 100 percent beaver Winchester dress-weight body will take a finish to rival just about any vintage hat. I'm not arguing that everybody gets those results, but those results can be had. ...And I long ago lost count of how many all-new hats I've made -- from Winchester bodies, mostly. So this opinion is grounded in several years of hands-on experience...

Hi

I got a couple, he speaks the truth.

Later

 

[DJH]

Yes, what Tony can do with that Winchester felt is quite remarkable.