Photos of hatters tools

[TheDane]

An oil pan is a very good idea, John. These waste bins are quite common in Denmark (large paper sacks are made for this model), but I don't know if you use them in USA. The lid from an old discarded bin of those will also work.

The most important thing is the heating element (and the control of that). I know, that some hatters use a cold sandbag after ironing the brim, but it's a little hard for me to see, why. I'm sure a cold sandbag won't harm anybody or anything - but it doesn't really do a lot of good, either. Heat, moisture and pressure is the combination, that sets the brim. A well-set brim is what makes it keep the shape and snap for decades

 

[OT1899]

Home made flanging bag:

Oil pan, steel handles, bolts, washers, lock washers, canvas, 50 lbs sand, and some wire. The wire is the weak point. I'm going to have to find a giant hose clamp sort of gadget, but this seems functional to finish the jobs I'm working on at present.

Perhaps industrial/military strength cable ties would work? I have seen them at Lowe's and Home Depot, but don't remember how long they were. Just looked on Amazon and found some 48 inches long. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[The Wiser Hatter]

You should look up hose clamps instead of wire ties.

 

[OT1899]

You should look up hose clamps instead of wire ties.

Just searched worm gear hose clamps and did not find any large diameter sizes available. I tried google, amazon and grainger supply. Perhaps I am not using the right search term? Also, how long would it need to be? You have my curiosity stirred now.

 

[John Galt]

The oil pan is 16" in diameter. Couldn't find 18" in my town.

 

[John Galt]

An oil pan is a very good idea, John. These waste bins are quite common in Denmark (large paper sacks are made for this model), but I don't know if you use them in USA. The lid from an old discarded bin of those will also work.

The most important thing is the heating element (and the control of that). I know, that some hatters use a cold sandbag after ironing the brim, but it's a little hard for me to see, why. I'm sure a cold sandbag won't harm anybody or anything - but it doesn't really do a lot of good, either. Heat, moisture and pressure is the combination, that sets the brim. A well-set brim is what makes it keep the shape and snap for decades

My wife has some microwave sandbags she puts on her neck. I heated them up & put them on the flanging cloth, then laid the flanging bag on top. I don't know if it will help, but I don't think it will hurt. That has me thinking about making a canvas pillow or donut sandbag that can go in the micro.

 

[John Galt]

John you can get a large clamp at swimming pools supply similar to filter for pool. Also industrial clamp for dust collection system bags

I will look for one of these today. I know what you are talking about, my pool filter has one...

Thanks for the suggestions gents!

 

[ManofKent]

Great inventiveness!

 

[TheDane]

To distribute the weight and make it more stable, I would choose to hang it from more than one point: Three eye-bolts through the lid with a large(!) washers on the underside. Then three small pieces of chain connected to the bolts with shackles - and in the other end connected to each other with a shackle. That will give you one point to hang the bag in - but the weight is distributed to three points on the lid/pan of pretty thin material. All the professional versions, I have seen of this type of sandbagger, have been mounted with a three-legged bracket on top of the pan.

PS: "Three bolts" by the same reason as the "three legged stool". It will never rock ... four or more will

 

[Mr.Astor]

John the best are the clamps for a sawdust collection system they are a little flexible not to dissimilar to a hose clamp, and the bag is of a canvass material. Hose clamps don't come close to the circumference you are trying to achieve. Look again at your pool filter it's perfect, but rigid. An old round washtub of the galvanized type with 3 pieces of chain secured with a ring at the top like The Dane said it will distribute weight equally.cut a hole in the bottom install a heat lamp in the center to heat sand, is probably the fastest way to get to a high temp. But you can't walk away from it! I've tried a block heater laid in the sand, I've tried heat tape, none can raise the temp like a heat lamp! Just food for thought!

 

[The Wiser Hatter]

Here the type of hose clamp to use. It's a swivel quick clamp.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#=rlx7wm
You can use the 21 inch one may a want to connect two of them together to get the length needed.

 

[TheDane]

I've seen several sandbaggers with a sail eyelet in each corner of the canvas and a few along each side. A thin rope is then used to "sew" the canvas to the pan. Here's a pic from Buckaroo's website, where it's done this way with the flanging cloth, covering the canvas:

If you make a canvas bag for the sand, that you can close with a string in the top, you could let that hang loose in the flanging cloth - "sewn" to the pan with a thin rope.

Btw, an industrial whisking bowl, made from stainless steel would also be great for the pan. Stainless steel transport heat very poorly, so the heat will probably not escape so easily the way it tend to go - upwards

 

[CRH]

I feel a lot more confident in my position now that we've called in the heavy artillery..............

............or not! :eeek:

 

[John Galt]

I've seen several sandbaggers with a sail eyelet in each corner of the canvas and a few along each side. A thin rope is then used to "sew" the canvas to the pan. Here's a pic from Buckaroo's website, where it's done this way with the flanging cloth, covering the canvas:

If you make a canvas bag for the sand, that you can close with a string in the top, you could let that hang loose in the flanging cloth - "sewn" to the pan with a thin rope.

Btw, an industrial whisking bowl, made from stainless steel would also be great for the pan. Stainless steel transport heat very poorly, so the heat will probably not escape so easily the way it tend to go - upwards

I think I will improve the design by making the bag slightly bigger and sewing it together instead of just bunching it up. I think I'll also sew a collar on the inside of the bag that will fold down over the sand when full, and put grommets and a cord in as you have suggested, so I can tie it off on the pan.

Then, of course, a heat lamp. This one seems to be working at the moment, but for two issues. First, it's a little narrower one way than the other because I cut my cloth in half, and it was a couple of inches too short to be uniform. I didn't think that would hurt, but it doesn't have as much weight or coverage on the sides, so I was getting some wrinkling there before I turned the bag to let it push down further on the sides. I think that will help in the short term.

Second, no heat lamp yet, so I've been alternating ironing & letting it sit in the sun. That has done pretty well except as noted. The brim has taken on a very nice turban roll as intended, and I'm just trying to get a couple of stubborn waves out of the very edge now.

As for the oil pan, at $16 it is much less expensive than an 18" steel mixing bowl ~$80-100, which was actually my first choice. Whatever you use, it should have a good lip to hold the bag on.

Today I ended up buying some 1/4" speed nuts, metal pipe hanging tape, and a 1/4" bolt to strap the bag in for now. Basically, I'll make my own giant hose clamp. Later, I'll make the design improvements. As for flanging cloth, for now, I'm just laying a sheet of it over the brim.

I don't know that I'll actually hang this. For now, I'm lugging it around, which is why I put handles on it. I'm thinking I may mount it in a box with a thrift store hydrolic jack and a plate, to press the bag against the flange.

 

[TheDane]

The bottom of the sandbag is where you want the heat. You don't want to heat the sand from above. A 1" (diameter) solenoid, made from a 44' long, 18 AWG NIC80-wire (80% Nickel and 20% Chrome) will give you a heating element, consuming appr. 800 Watts. Sew that to a piece of fibreglass cloth in the bottom of the canvas bag. The solenoid should be sewn in a spiral from the center and out. That's the way, professional sandbaggers are heated.

It's important to incorporate a good temperature control and an overheating fuse. Also remember to ground the pan

PS: The price argument for the pan is very convincing!

 

[Hatter4]

John, good luck with your sandbag. I like you idea

 

[bond]

Here's a custom tolliker that fellow lounger Humanshoes aka Rick made for me.
The first one didn't fit my hand well and was too short as well as tipped over easily so he was nice enough to accept the first one back and re designed this one for me.
First rate customer service and skilled craftsman !
Thank you again Rick

 

[John Galt]

Beautiful work!

 

[John Galt]

John, good luck with your sandbag. I like you idea

Thanks! I'm going to be working on some design improvements as discussed, including a heating methodology. I'll keep you all posted.

 

[ManofKent]

Nice tool - Bond